Hydrology question

[rjack]

There's a bit of a misunderstanding about hydrostatic pressure here. Phillip is looking at an outlet. The inlet is (somewhere) at a higher elevation. Between the higher elevation and his location the water <might> be confined in a lower elevation layer or tunnel. My money is on the plateau being the ultimate source of the water though. How large is the plateau? 200m is a huge amount of head and a whole lot of water could be stored in 200m lens of karst/limestone.

[OFG-1]

Phillip;

It has to come back to gravity. There has to be water perched on something higher than the outlet. Remember, if you look at the Leon sink system, it is a couple of miles of tunnel between Turner and Wakulla, and the cave that you found could have miles of passage in and around the adjacent mountains. Same type of thing, this could have many outlets or other springs around the area. It could branch off into many different smaller tunnels that drain many acres of mountain tops around the area.

The elevation difference does not have to be great, if a lot of water is draining through a small tunnel, but I would not bet on this.

I would try to find any small crevasses, sinks, holes, standing water that is above the elevation of your spring and dye trace it.

Sounds like you have a lot of work to do.

[PfcAJ]

That's incorrect. That would require there to be a 1 ATM difference in air pressure, which is tough since we only have 1 ATM of pressure. The weight of the water flowing downward in what pulls the water upward. You need just enough difference it the height of the surface and outlet to overcome losses, and flow fast enough to not break siphon. If this were the case, you would see periodic surges as the upper reservoir filled and emptied.

Ok, try and siphon into a bucked 33ft above your aquarium. Take a video. I'll be waiting for the lulz

In the mean time, read this. http://www.pump-zone.com/topics/pipi...-sucking-sound

[Jax]

This has a good, if tongue-in-cheek, discussion:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...-a-siphon-work

[Greenwood_60]

Ok, try and siphon into a bucked 33ft above your aquarium. Take a video. I'll be waiting for the lulz

In the mean time, read this. http://www.pump-zone.com/topics/pipi...-sucking-sound

Try to siphon 1 ft above your's, and let me know how it goes.

You are missing the point. That 1 ATM of pressure acting on the higher end of the siphon, is also acting on the lower end. Unless you are dealing with extreme heights (which we are not) those pressures negate themselves.

[PfcAJ]

Try to siphon 1 ft above your's, and let me know how it goes.

You are missing the point. That 1 ATM of pressure acting on the higher end of the siphon, is also acting on the lower end. Unless you are dealing with extreme heights (which we are not) those pressures negate themselves.

You can raise water up 1ft. You cant raise it 34ft (without pumps and sumps). Its air pressure that pushes it up the tube, while gravity appears to pull it back down the other side of the tube. Did you read that link? You are correct about air pressure working on both ends, and I misspoke. And mountains are extreme heights (a 30ft mountain isnt much of a mountain), which is the premise of the thread.

[Greenwood_60]

This has a good, if tongue-in-cheek, discussion:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...-a-siphon-work

Thanks Jax. I did not know there was a practical limit.

AJ, the limit is not how high you can siphon, since you can't siphon up. The limit is how much vacuum the liquid can stand before cavitating. Which means there is only so high an obstacle you can siphon OVER. The outlet (or bucket) still has to be below the top of the water in the inlet (aquarium).

You can raise water up 1ft.

You show me siphoning up, and I will show you perpetual motion.

[PfcAJ]

like a straw. But you cant have a 35ft straw. It wont work.

And I agree, the bucket has to be lower than the source.

[Greenwood_60]

like a straw. But you cant have a 35ft straw. It wont work.

And I agree, the bucket has to be lower than the source.

Sounds like we are on the same page.

[rjack]

Yay! water flows downhill.

Now back to Phillip's issue, how much water can a 200m high(er) plateau hold and release...