So, do you prefer being called a large bladdered child?Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
So, do you prefer being called a large bladdered child?
"Have you ever noticed
When you're feeling really good
There's always a pigeon
That'll come shiat on your hood?" John Prine 4-7-2020
"Into the blue again; in the silent water
Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads
Really? I'm sure NONE of the people who swim there pee in the water. The thought that cave divers using overboard discharge would affect water quality is absurd.
I didn't count. 114 was what one of the panel members stated at the end of the meeting.
FWIW, I've been in the water with manatees at Devil's. They didn't look one bit stressed at seeing our group. In fact, they swam around us a couple of times checking us out. I've also seen manatees in Crystal River with scars that were very obviously caused by propellers. I am all for protecting manatees. So if they really want to protect the manatees then it would be the boating activities that would need to be ceased. Bringing up the manatees is just an excuse by the non-informed.
Rob Neto
Chipola Divers, LLC
Check out my new book - Sidemount Diving - An Almost Comprehensive Guide
"Survival depends on being able to suppress anxiety and replace it with calm, clear, quick and correct reasoning..." -Sheck Exley
Don't know... I'm not writing the regs, just proposing that management solutions exist for every concern that I have heard to date. If you have better ideas, I'm all ears.
It was a joke, but water quality is a concern. I think a legitimate one, but I haven't seen anything to suggest a limited number of divers would have a significant effect on water quality (assuming we're not talking about the first day after taco-night, or open-water students) (also a joke)
This really is the big issue that the local community and Friends of Wakulla (as well as cave divers) need to focus their attention. Everybody agrees that Wakulla is a pristine site,but it is dying,and so are quite a few other springs. Longterm residents will tell stories of when this spring was air clear,now reaching the point that glass bottom boats can't run. I remember hearing comments from the audience that they don't want the spring trashed,but as was noted their brothers to the north are the problem,and I am sure many are residents of the northern county. If the water quality of Wakulla continues to decrease that will have a larger impact on toursim than any single concern that was brought up.
"Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick
Absolutely, I'm sensitive about my bladder size.
Wait until you double in age
Safe diving,
Sandy Robinson
Wait? Of course, I'm in no hurryWait until you double in age
My thoughts about the meeting.
A few comments I heard that bothered me were by some of the experts. One was that while cave divers will damage the bones by disturbing them. They do not understand that the current permit holders are dusting them off right now for people to see them better. So its if wrong its already being done but should be stopped. Anther was by a well known protector of caves that normally supports cave diving. He just thought it was too sensitive. I really had hoped he had been on our side. There was quite a few science groups against us but not all.
Another was that it was implied that only the WKPP can help protect caves. They have had done excellent work over the years but similar work has been done over the years for other systems by others. I did not hear much about how we have worked together in the past as well as actions by different groups.
There was talk of all the sensitive scientific work being stolen. We have had these in lots of systems for years and I have yet to have heard of one being taken in highly traveled systems. One fellow did talk about his research project being left alone but it was in remote areas. We need to let them know where lots of people have traveled this has been no issue.
There were people talking of allowing OW diving there. I believe most of us think that is not smart. In general we also were perceived as folks who do graffiti. Kelly tried to dismiss that most of this was from OW divers and that we prosecuted someone for just such an act and set up a reward fund. Several people used what we said about the damage being from the one percent being too much not making allowing the 99 percent to use it due to this. Its my opinion we need to develop signs like the grim reaper but talking about conservation especially at sights the OW divers have access.
In general we it seems the general public does not understand our sport. Somehow we need to get the word out better.
There was limited talk about some of the other sites being opened. I personally think there should be some compromise on this subject. I personally cringed when someone took a real aggressive approach with talks of federal law suites as its our right. I think that it is a privilege and not a right and the quickest way to stop it would be this approach but that's just my opinion.
As to the manatee encounters closing it during that season would work but I really believe that the people who get to see them up close and personal with the scars on their back are some of the strongest supporters of helping them.
I do not think the general public understands how much divers care after just one encounter.
There is a lot of misconception about the whole process and just how few people would even qualify to dive the main spring. There would not be tons of people who get to do it.
Anther thing I heard was that our expenses were overblown. We need really good numbers to summit to the different groups that this might make a difference. They really do not trust us and to some its too short sighted to open it for what they consider short term benefits. Really good accounting reports and the ability to do this over long term would be useful. Some of this was addressed but as others have said it is hard to do in 90 seconds.
This is just my thoughts of course after listening to most everyone.
Tom
I have EVERY single cave diving equipment and fill receipt going back to when I started a few years ago. I didn't save hotels, but do have all of the receipts for tangible gear from cavern through intro. I could scan these, and spreadsheet them, to show an example of how much a.low level caver has invested. And I will spend another $5000 or so building up training and gear to eventually dive to 300 ft in Wakulla one day.
As a group, do we see value in. me doing this and submitting to the representatives such as Wakulla Dive Center & Wakulla County Dive Club for which I am a member? I know I'm nowhere near the level of those currently qualified to dive there, but our budget numbers might be more believable if we provide them with a real world example with a box of receipts to show at the meeting and a pdf version to submit electronically.
Just make sure this file never hits my wife's email inbox!! Its WAY more than her car costs.
Semper Questio ~ Semper Fidelis
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