Cow Springs

[FW]

Wow In due time I will be diving this system. The NSS-CDS form online- is that the best way to join?

It will work fine, just give enough time for your card to go through and get back to you. If you are in a hurry, you can sign up at Dive Outpost, and dive the same day.

[DA Aquamaster]

The definition of "major restriction" I learned is you have to remove some gear to pass it. Do you use another definition?

The only time I've removed equipment to get through there was when using a stage and that was in back mount, and done more to reduce any potential for damage than out of necessity. By side mount standards both of them are pretty large and you slide right in.

I referred to it as a "major" restriction because the people who took me there first referred to it as "major" and it was probably prudent on their part to describe it that way.

Given that the OP's never been there and is of undetermined skill level, size and configuration, I'd rather overstate it than understate it.

But you are free to label it however you want to label it.

[MORGAN]

What I remember learning was that a major restriction requires manipulation (not necessarily removal) of equipment and/or changing body position to pass.

I had a heck of a time trying to get into upstream Cow for the first time in backmount. In sidemount I slide right in.

[huxley]

What exactly makes the upstream full cave only?
this is from the nss cds website:

Cow Springs:

The Upstream entrance to Cow Springs has a major restriction requiring moderate body and equipment manipulation to pass through a roughly vertical to horizontal transition at about 40 feet of depth. Current flow is typically quite high requiring the use of a pull rope permanently installed in the front section of the cave. Visibility is normally very good with depths to the 90-110 foot range. The upstream section is quite delicate and is considered an advanced cave dive. Divers MUST ensure their buoyancy control is excellent prior to entering this system as it contains spectacular clay banks and delicate goethite formations throughout that are easily damaged as well as challenging high flow and additional restrictions beyond the entrance.

Some people get through easy some have to modify, it's tight and should not be underestimated that's why its beyond the intro/ apprentice skills.

Safe diving!

[huxley]

I agree with Forrest, go to the Dive Outpost which you need to do anyways to get the Key. You can sign up and pay fees right away, NSSCDS will issue you a # and send you your membership card. Mine took a week or two. Once you have the card you have the member # that you will need to sign the waiver and get the key.
Since you mentioned you looked at it I assume you know how to get there.

[DA Aquamaster]

What I remember learning was that a major restriction requires manipulation (not necessarily removal) of equipment and/or changing body position to pass.

I had a heck of a time trying to get into upstream Cow for the first time in backmount. In sidemount I slide right in.

That's the definition I recall.

It's all relative though. I have noted in general that caves and restrictions get larger as your skills and comfort level improve.

[Xenia]

The definition of "major restriction" I learned is you have to remove some gear to pass it. Do you use another definition?

From what I remember a restriction is considered major when two divers cannot pass through it side by side. If you had to share air at cow, it would be necessary to get on a single file to go through this restriction.

[JE]

Granted I've only been 2500' into cow but I don't remember running into any spots that required clawing.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

Grovelling is the word that comes to my mind. I think back on my own dives in Cow, & have never had to claw or grunt my way in. At that time i was only diving the upper & lower sections, the new section had not yet been discovered. However, I often practiced my skills in high flow systems with tight spots . I was proud of the skills I aquired. Having to shovel, grunt, & kick your way into a passage is never a good idea. In fact, to me it would appear to be dangerous if not fool hardy !
I agree with you: The skills & training required to enter upstream Cow should be posted at Cathys, before being allowed to dive it.
That's my two cents worth. But then I don't like hearing about accidents.

[Sludge]

From what I remember a restriction is considered major when two divers cannot pass through it side by side.

In my training, that was the definition of "minor restriction." So what do you consider a minor restriction?

Maybe we should have a thread on differences in terminology used by different instructors. For example, some years back somebody mentioned to me he was doing the Grand Traverse. What in the heck is the Grand Traverse? You know, going in at Orange Grove and coming out Peacock 1. Oh, you mean the Mile Run!

[JamesK]

That actually sounds like a fun idea for a thread.