Ultimate cavern dive in florida???

[LiteHedded]

is it trashed at all? i don't recall seeing any damage that stood out really

[SuPrBuGmAn]

is it trashed at all? i don't recall seeing any damage that stood out really

There are threads here and there about damage at Buford, even tampadiving has a report of it...

"12/26/2009 cdavis 100 Buford was great as usual. LOTS of water in the swamp. We are freediving and I sure don't envy you guys trying to carry tanks out there. Like the last report, there was a green tinge to the water and it wasn't anywhere near that unearthly clarity that it sometimes gets to. I looked carefully around the 80 ft mark and could find no sign of surface water ingress. Sure hope the green disappears soon. One very obnoxious thing. Some terminally juvenile jackass has been writing on the walls of the sink. I tried to get it off, but seemed to just make things worse. Please, if you know who is responsible for this, get them to STOP! Buford is a an almost mystical place that has been well taken care of by generations of divers, let it stay that way. If logic and guilt don't seem to work, remind them what happens to the car's of ass holes who trash Buford."

[LiteHedded]

bummer
i know shops do AOW classes there so this is to be expected.
not sure I'd blame the internet

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Interwebs = more traffic = more degradation even with responsible usage & more likely jackassery types will go out there without a care and mess stuff up... :/

[Omni]

bummer
i know shops do AOW classes there so this is to be expected.
not sure I'd blame the internet

Whaa!?!??? They are doing AOW in a cavern? I don't care if it doesn't have a cave if it is a cavern they should not be anywhere near it. Am I mistaken on just what it is, is it an actual cavern or is it a pit with clear water that people just call a cavern?

[MORGAN]

Whaa!?!??? They are doing AOW in a cavern? I don't care if it doesn't have a cave if it is a cavern they should not be anywhere near it. Am I mistaken on just what it is, is it an actual cavern or is it a pit with clear water that people just call a cavern?

It doesn't seem to be uncommon for OW shops to completely disregard standards, on places they take OW divers on tours as well as where they teach. The last time I was at Paradise, about 5 years ago, there was a dive shop group (5 divers led by a divemaster) down at the sign, 100+ feet down, flopping around and silting out the place. Talking to them afterwards I found that two of them were a father and 12 year old son who had just taken a two day weekend OW course. Their first dives after class, on a shop sponsored and led tour, were to 100+ feet in the overhead.

Mike

[MORGAN]

I haven't been to Buford yet; my vote for a beautiful cavern is Jackson Blue. After the first time we dove there, Tracy said, "If I wanted someone to instantly fall in love with underwater caves, I'd bring them here!"

Mike

[Omni]

It doesn't seem to be uncommon for OW shops to completely disregard standards, on places they take OW divers on tours as well as where they teach. The last time I was at Paradise, about 5 years ago, there was a dive shop group (5 divers led by a divemaster) down at the sign, 100+ feet down, flopping around and silting out the place. Talking to them afterwards I found that two of them were a father and 12 year old son who had just taken a two day weekend OW course. Their first dives after class, on a shop sponsored and led tour, were to 100+ feet in the overhead.

Mike

I am honestly speechless about this. I have been AOW certified for 10 years and have wanted to get my cavern/cave certs for the last eight. For one reason or another I wasn't able to take the classes until now "scheduled for Aug". Reading about this type of stuff really irks me since I have waited so long. It seems that every time I turn around there is a new cert that you need before you can do this dive or use that type of gear. I really think that it is stunts like this that contribute to the need a special c-card for everything mentality that the dive industry has. The dive agencies want to make money and use this as a excuse to protect us from ourselves. The result is that people with the self control to wait and do it right end up having to pay more.

[Herbie]

Every group has somebody that wants to be a "DIC".

Mostly Open water divers due to lack of awareness. Or people like you that dont recognise it as rape and abuse.

Sounds like you're being the "DIC". This member has asked a simple question. "Hows Buford being raped?" Maybe he has not seen what you have seen or have you even been there to see it for yourself ?
Let me tell you all a little story. Back when Eagles Nest was closed the only people diving Buford were sneak diving and then very limited due to the WMA officers. When Larry Green and a host of others did an awesome job and got Eagles Nest open for qualified divers , Buford was never mentioned. A friend of mine who has been diving that area for a "VERY LONG TIME", invited me to dive at a "special place that most have not seen". I jumped on the opportunity. Well that place was Buford Sink in 02/2004. After diving I was stoked, never had I had an adventure just to get to a spot and what a spot, PRISTINE! I was so charged up I told him I wanted to write a dive report about this dive and swore i would not give away location or name. I posted a report titled "Swamp Cavern"(you can find it on the Old Dive Reports Part IV or search Swamp Cavern).
Well four days later a member called "PHREATICUS" had to post and let everyone know the place was Buford Sink. That started the free for all at Buford, thank you Phreaticus. Till this day I never understood why he did that. You can see his post right after Swamp Cavern and see for yourselves. My friend was upset and though I never mentioned the place by name or location , it led to some other ass doing it. It took awhile for my bro to forgive me and trust me again. I regret writing that report and being any part of leading others there.
Now I agree with SuPrBugman on some of his statements but from what i have read it seems Sheck Exley used all available media to promote cave diving, safety and locations. he wrote books, magazine articles, gave interviews, instructed classes, videos, etc... I believe he saw what was coming and wanted less deaths and more conservation to our growing sport. One of his main dive partners and close friend, Ned DeLoach has had his"Underwater Florida" book in print since 1977 with the last update in 2004. Over 80% (at least) of the caves WE ALL dive are listed in his book. No secrets just , location , descriptions, directions etc.. Anyone who cave dives has this book or at least seen it. Come on we want to think by not discussing caves on this forum we are protecting them? Maybe, but sooner or later they get exposed. The real problem was brought up and that is the agencies and instructors. I don't care when you got certified, some instructor issued you a passport to cave dive. No they cannot be responsible for what divers do after certification but they should be able to judge and discern why a person is seeking to cave dive and if this person has got the skills. How many times do we see people who just got full cave and dive like ****. How did an instructor feel they were qualified? For this they should be held accountable. We need to police our own kind and if we see divers with bad technique or no regard for the caves then we confront(peacefully) and try to help remedy the problem. My own example, I just moved back from Costa Rica after 4.5 years there. Did a lot of OW but no caves. Went to Peacock for the first time a few weeks ago. Felt like a bull in a china shop and called both dives within 600 feet. Luckily my dive partner , Chris, was not upset, felt it was the right call and provided some very good advice. This was my first time diving with this gent and he was nothing but supportive, was'nt upset or angry, just cool. I was not ready and felt like I could cause some scars, my remedy hit the local OW and practice with doubles, running reel, drills etc.. outside of a cave. Well now I feel ready so I will probally go to the kindergarten spot(Ginnie Ballroom) and work some more on skills in the overhead before venturing into any system. My instructors instllled a sense of responsibility during training and made it known what was expected to join this group, to the point of holding me in apprentice stage for five months. I can only thank them today for not giving me the cert but letting me EARN IT. Thank you Jill H., Paul H. and Brian K. While at Cave Excursions in Luraville a few weeks ago I was getting a fill and eavesdropped on a conversation of some instructor who had just certified two guys for cavern/intro cave in ONE DAY because they could not stay two nights and were paying$$$. Thats ****** up. These certified divers proceeded to enter Little River and trash the place after cert. Does anyone have any suggestions and what we should do as a community of cave divers to protect our cave systems? we all belong to one agency or another , they take our money and we get to vote for the BOD. Maybe we should use this collective power and force them to do something about unethical instructors or lose our $$$. My opinion for what its worth, about a buck. lets dive , take care all.

[RN]

Whaa!?!??? They are doing AOW in a cavern? I don't care if it doesn't have a cave if it is a cavern they should not be anywhere near it. Am I mistaken on just what it is, is it an actual cavern or is it a pit with clear water that people just call a cavern?

Shops have been doing AOW dives at Eagle's Nest for years, too...in the cavern...