Cave and Cavern Directory

[mag3]

The rating idea is kind of a neat concept, but why not just ask some people on this forum or look up some trip reports before planning a long journey to cave country?

I guess it's just the "IT Systems Professional" in me. It would be nice to have the information collected, stored and presentable in an organized fashion, rather than everyone just pestering everyone else on here for each and every cave, each and every time. It seemed that Walter's site was perfect for that storage/presentation effort.

He already has check box columns for "OW," "Cavern," and "Cave" for each listing. Perhaps, if there were one additional column for "Intro," it would help a lot. A site checked as "Intro" would be one that an "Intro" diver could dive with relative ease (ie. those with easily navigable main lines (ie. without complex T's), few if any obstructions / restrictions, low silt potential, and very little in fragile formations (requiring expert buoyancy/trim skills), unlike Mexico caves which are terribly fragile). Ginnie and Peacock, for example. Anything of greater difficulty would be "full cave" or beyond.

nobody has been to all of them.

Agreed. But every little bit helps, and having a rating for the popular ones would be very helpful.

Some of those places can be tame at times, and pretty friggin scary at others. Some are just scary all the time. If you need someone to tell you your own limits, you might want to steer clear from them all together?

It's not that I need someone to tell me my limits. I'm pretty comfortable with them at present, and have no trouble at all thumbing a dive which exceeds them. But in order to know which caves might meet or exceed my limits, it would be helpful to know what other, more experienced divers thought of them as well. Walter's site helps a lot with the check boxes for "OW/Cavern/Cave," as do the maps and other resources and the reports. I guess, as stated above, it would be helpful to break out that "Cave" column into a separate "Intro" choice, in order to know which caves are "Intro diver" friendly.

BTW, I've been meaning to ask, if I may, is it "Super 'Bug' Man" or "Super 'Boogey' Man"?

I think he might mean something along the lines of planning a trip.

Not a "specific" trip per se, but planning "in general." And "knowledge" in general. Knowing all that I can about a cave before ever attempting to dive it. And the knowledge/opinion of others who have done it already can be very valuable.

BTW, have you done the "gas chamber" yet? The Crucible draws near!

[ScubaRob]

Thanks for the information Walter. I heard someone referring to the flags the other day. I was wondering how to find out about some Mexican I caves I plan to dive in July.

Great job with the site. It and this site are my main sources for recent conditions.

Rob,

[murfef]

BTW, have you done the "gas chamber" yet? The Crucible draws near!

Oh yeah, gas chamber was on Training Day 24, we are on Training Day 53 today. This coming week is "admin week" and the next is final PFT, final drill and then off to the Crucible at about 0200 Thursday morning the 24th and then grad the next friday the 2nd!!! Can't wait.

[mdax]

I would like it if more folks could upload resources, likes links to video's of systems in youtube or pictures they've taken.

[Walter Pickel]

I have thought about the rating system but have no idea how to pull it off -- too many opinions (mine included). I guess that is why I am pretty liberal with what goes in the condition reports. Ginnie could go from Cavern/Intro to pretty hairy pretty quick. Honestly, I think it is a personal thing to think about.

With respect to videos, as I find them on YouTube I generally add them under the resources tab for each system. This stuff gets updated to the Twitter (www.twitter.com/CaveConditions) page (vs. having a change log).

I have really enjoyed seeing some of the international sites getting updated.

So, rating system and upload pictures and video...I wonder how much moderation that would entail.

So what do you guys see on the system page that isn't needed (weather, nearby caves, safety officers, etc)?

[mag3]

I have thought about the rating system but have no idea how to pull it off -- too many opinions (mine included). I guess that is why I am pretty liberal with what goes in the condition reports. Ginnie could go from Cavern/Intro to pretty hairy pretty quick. Honestly, I think it is a personal thing to think about.

Walter, I appreciate your even considering it. My objective when thinking about it was as previously stated - a resource where a student or fairly new cave diver can go when seeking information about a particular cave to consider diving. If it helps, it could be as easy as taking the "Cave" check box you already have, and splitting it into two.... "Intro" and "Cave". An entry checked with "Intro" would be safe for new/inexperienced Intro divers under optimal conditions (eg. well defined main line, no complicated navigations, Ts, etc., and minimal restrictions, low silt, not a lot of fragile geologic formations). With the understanding, of course, that as conditions change, the site might require more experience, and maybe a higher cert rating. Something checked as "Cave" only, would then always require "Full cave" cert. at a minimum.

With respect to videos, as I find them on YouTube I generally add them under the resources tab for each system. This stuff gets updated to the Twitter (www.twitter.com/CaveConditions) page (vs. having a change log).

You might also consider the Vimeo site for these, as I think some of the best videos (from Paco, Becky etc.) are uploaded there.

So, rating system and upload pictures and video...I wonder how much moderation that would entail.

No more that what you're currently doing with the three current check boxes, no?

So what do you guys see on the system page that isn't needed (weather, nearby caves, safety officers, etc)?

That all looks good. The more information, the better.

[MichaelAngelo]

Walter
You have a great site. Easy to read and packed with info.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

If it doesn't have drive up access, a park, and benches around it... you can pretty much bet that by just being IN the system, things are going to get a bit nasty. Without traffic, most caves get dirty(its only natural).

BTW, I've been meaning to ask, if I may, is it "Super 'Bug' Man" or "Super 'Boogey' Man"?

Bug, its a Volkswagen thing

[Sludge]

Bug, its a Volkswagen thing

If he'd read the "Where'd you get your screen name?" thread he'd have already known that.

[jj1987]

First, I'm not a huge fan of rating caves intro, full, abe davis, dpv, etc. I've seen people get their abe davis by doing intro dives with buddies with a few full cave dives here and there, or doing it all in one system, so I really don't put much into that sticker on the card. Since most sites in Walter's page don't have a gate keeper, you really do need to use your judgment. Some of us have scootered 5kft into a big cave, but you couldn't pay us to go 100ft into a no mount cave...that's just my own comfort level, and I don't hesitate to let anyone I dive with know it.

I would suggest that some of the sites on Walter's site are best reserved for talking to people familiar with the system about them, or perhaps going with someone who's dove them. Walter gives you HUGE hints, just put in a bit of work and find details.

Some caves are listed near 300ft deep because they are in some sections, but lots of passage is at 100ft. Some caves are marked closed, but there's ways to (legally) gain access. Most of these sites can't handle traffic, either the land owners would get annoyed, or the cave is too soft. I think posting teasers online to motivate people to get out of a state park and see different things is good, but perhaps turning pristine sites into the next Ginnie is something we don't need to be doing.

There's plenty of people willing to share information, it's just a matter of meeting mutual friends and asking for information. Lots of old timers will share more in person than online anyways, and the history of the sport you learn along the way is an added bonus!