Rules of Engagement?? what have you done?

[temrich]

Another thought, triggered by FW's post:


My students have to watch "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" as part of their OW class. I don't avoid the subject of caves (hard to be around me for 5 minutes and not know it's my true love). I've talked to a couple of OW instructors who are horrified by me doing this.

I do this on day one, hour one, after the introductions. My students need to be aware of what is or could be in their backyards. It may be a little harsh, but I dont want one of my students(nor anyone else for that matter) dying in a cave.

[MORGAN]

My students have to watch "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" as part of their OW class.

I've talked to a couple of OW instructors who are horrified by me doing this.

I'm more horrified by the thought that there are OW instructors that don't do this! My wife shows it to her OW students, and she also tells them, before they write the checks for the class, "SCUBA divng is using life support equipment to enter a potentially fatal environment. The closest thing to it is space flight. If you're not ready to be as organized, as detail-oriented, and as safety conscious as an astronaut, this isn't the sport for you."

Mike

[MORGAN]

...in spite of all the information available people still have hard heads. There may not be much you can do, other than offer them information to get proper training.

Yup. I have signed many people out of the ER who were determined to sign out against medical advice. In one case, a man refused treatment even after being told he was having a heart attack. Nothing the ER staff said could make him stay, even when we got his wife and his personal physician on the phone to try to convince him. He came back by ambulance a few hours later in cardiac arrest and could not be resuscitated.

People can do pretty much what they want - all we can do is make sure that they have the information that they need to make good decisions. When they choose to disregard it, and won't listen to reason, they're on their own.

Mike

[ssmdive]

For me it really depends, do they have any gear that I want? If so, I'll offer my dive buddy a few bucks to not report them and we'll start the bidding.

Got to hear an instructor this weekend who was teaching a class, saw OW divers in Devil's. He took their light and opened it underwater, ruining it. IMO that gives a terrible image for our community, talking to them is about all we can do.

That guy had better be tough... That is asking for a punch in the nose on the surface.

[sskasser]

Oh, and so as not to seem like I'm just bashing at OW instructors, I had the pleasure of being at a site where both cave and OW diving is allowed during an OW class. I'm gearing up and overhear the instructor explain "there is a cave here, and while we've talked about never going into a cave until you're trained, I also want to remind you about dealing with cave divers. They're a tough, hard group of folks with really big knives and bad tempers. They leave tanks and reels and such lying around in the oddest places, and if they ever catch you touching one, MAN, it won't be pretty!" Now, by the tone of her voice, she was obviously being tongue-in-cheek to an extent, and her students caught that, I believe. But she also made her point And I nearly choked trying not to laugh out loud

[Marc Bryan]

I agree Shirley. You can try to have a reasonable conversation, but in the end it is the individuals right to KAK themselves or not, and they have to make that decision themselves.

[sskasser]

For me it really depends, do they have any gear that I want? If so, I'll offer my dive buddy a few bucks to not report them and we'll start the bidding.

Got to hear an instructor this weekend who was teaching a class, saw OW divers in Devil's. He took their light and opened it underwater, ruining it. IMO that gives a terrible image for our community, talking to them is about all we can do.

How did he know they were OW and not Cavern? For many agencies, the gear set is the same for both, minus the snorkel.

[Mark Vlahos]

I usually try to politely and pleasantly talk about the training. To become an open water diver you only need some classroom time, some pool sessions and 4 supervised open water instructional dives. To start cave training you need to have Advanced Open Water, and buoyancy skills that for most divers don't come until they have 100 or 200 dives under their belt, and that is what you need to start! I tell them that once you start cave training it is 16 instructional dives and at the conclusion of training then you are ready to begin as a newbie. I always try to impress the considerable difference in the amount and type of training in an attempt to highlight the less forgiving nature of the overhead.

Most divers are amazed at how many dives are need just as part of formal instruction, not to mention how much experience is needed just to start. There are always the hard headed ones that don't listen. Most of them will never get it no matter what, so I just shake my head and move along.

Mark Vlahos

[jj1987]

How did he know they were OW and not Cavern? For many agencies, the gear set is the same for both, minus the snorkel.

No idea. I was thinking the same thing to myself. Regardless I was amazed that a NSS-CDS board member would do such a thing. It really leaves a bad taste in the mouths of someone who might just need a firm talking to and shown where to seek training.

That guy had better be tough... That is asking for a punch in the nose on the surface.

Agreed. If you're going to pull stunts like that you better have a re breather where you can stay down a loooong time, or big enough to fight back.

[LiteHedded]

No idea. I was thinking the same thing to myself. Regardless I was amazed that a NSS-CDS board member would do such a thing. It really leaves a bad taste in the mouths of someone who might just need a firm talking to and shown where to seek training.


Agreed. If you're going to pull stunts like that you better have a re breather where you can stay down a loooong time, or big enough to fight back.

really?