Pure curiosity

[LCF]

But what's the longest lights-out line-following exit you had to do in a class?

I did one in Full Cave that started from about 38 minutes of penetration, and was 48 minutes long (got my butt chewed for being slow, and learned a lesson about pushing the person in front). In mid-exit, my "buddy" (instructor) reached back and took the reg out of my mouth, which was fine.

Just wondered if that was typical. It was a long time to be in the dark, although nobody is really ever in the dark with an X1

[JahJahwarrior]

My first drill of any sort in Intro was a lights out air share from Hill400 area to the moment we popped out of the lips into the gallery.

I don't really remember any other lights out drills. We did so many of them, none stand out as having been particularly long. I never exited with my primary working, and I believe every exit involved multiple backup failures.

[DA Aquamaster]

The ones I recall where I know the distance were around 500'. My experience was similar to JahJah's in terms of multiple failures and gas sharing. In full cave they also normally involved travel back over your jumps, etc to ensure you could navigate in the dark, and to illustrate the finer points of setting the jumps in a manner that made them eaier to navigate by tocuh contact.

The focus in any case was on lots of repetitions of the initial phases of getting on the line, getting squared away as a team and getting moving at a good rate of speed after the failures. I'm not an instructor, but I am not sure I see the point of doing a prolonged exit in the dark other than making the point that it can get slow if you don't make the effort to keep the speed up.

[LCF]

Well, we transited a T and a jump and a couple of restrictions, IIRC, and I think the point was to get experience doing all those things. There was, of course, also the point of being able to show me how much slower we were coming out.

[skdvr]

Non Cave diver question here...

How does the instructor keep an eye on you if all the lights are out. I always just assumed that they used some sort of blackout mask, and then the instructor could still have things lit up. From the sounds of what LCF posted that all the lights were just out. Is it something where you are diving in caves that the instructor knows so well, that as long as they keep close they know if you get out of sorts?

Just wondering.

Thanks
Phil

[sdenney]

Non Cave diver question here...

How does the instructor keep an eye on you if all the lights are out. I always just assumed that they used some sort of blackout mask, and then the instructor could still have things lit up. From the sounds of what LCF posted that all the lights were just out. Is it something where you are diving in caves that the instructor knows so well, that as long as they keep close they know if you get out of sorts?

Just wondering.

Thanks
Phil

Generally, the instructor keeps his light on, but shields it with his hand. These drills are normally done in well-known areas that are rocky (little chance of a silt-out if things went wrong), etc.

In my Intro class, my lights-out, air share drill was done in Telford from the first sink to the springs head.

[Sludge]

These drills are normally done in well-known areas that are rocky (little chance of a silt-out if things went wrong), etc.

... or in the first 500' of the main tunnel of Peacock 1, so the vis is ruined for everyone for the day...

[Sludge]

How does the instructor keep an eye on you if all the lights are out.

My instructor would keep a penlight on, but would instruct everyone to close their eyes during the entire drill. There were two reasons for this:

1. You should keep your eyes closed so you truly have zero visibility, while the instructor can keep a small light on to observe everything the student does. If you want to cheat and open your eyes, you're only cheating yourself. (Remember, you're paying for this instruction.)

2. In a real zero-vis situation you should close your eyes anyway. It's a psychological thing. If you have your eyes open but can't see anything your brain is more prone to go into panic mode. If they're closed it makes sense that you can't see, so you stay calmer. You should open your eyes every few minutes to see if vis has returned, and if it hasn't, close them again.

[Dsix36]

My instructor would keep a penlight on, but would instruct everyone to close their eyes during the entire drill. There were two reasons for this:

1. You should keep your eyes closed so you truly have zero visibility, while the instructor can keep a small light on to observe everything the student does. If you want to cheat and open your eyes, you're only cheating yourself. (Remember, you're paying for this instruction.)

2. In a real zero-vis situation you should close your eyes anyway. It's a psychological thing. If you have your eyes open but can't see anything your brain is more prone to go into panic mode. If they're closed it makes sense that you can't see, so you stay calmer. You should open your eyes every few minutes to see if vis has returned, and if it hasn't, close them again.

#1 above - I was instructed the same way and totally agree with you.

#2 above - I understand and almost agree with you. I dive a rebreather with a HUD, it is very important to be able to know my PO2 at all times. I tend to keep my eyes open to monitor my HUD. In the case of OC, then I would agree with you on this point also.

[Line Squirrel]

My instructor would keep a penlight on, but would instruct everyone to close their eyes during the entire drill. There were two reasons for this:

1. You should keep your eyes closed so you truly have zero visibility, while the instructor can keep a small light on to observe everything the student does. If you want to cheat and open your eyes, you're only cheating yourself. (Remember, you're paying for this instruction.)

2. In a real zero-vis situation you should close your eyes anyway. It's a psychological thing. If you have your eyes open but can't see anything your brain is more prone to go into panic mode. If they're closed it makes sense that you can't see, so you stay calmer. You should open your eyes every few minutes to see if vis has returned, and if it hasn't, close them again.

Bang on Russell.

I closed my eyes as well. I opened my eyes once or twice by mistake for a split second, it's a natural reaction after awhile but it was sooooo black that my brain made more sense of it with my eyes closed. I had "dark" computors...the VR3's, etc. weren't on the market yet lol.