Negativity in Cave Diving Politics

[scubainchicago]

I'm no stranger to scuba politics, but WTF is going on in Florida? I've never seen so many people draw a line in the sand and throw stones at others. If it's not agency bashing, it's personal attacks that are compounded by others in the same trench. If not that, it's resistance to change and hearing out their fellow man to make informed decisions. It honestly makes individuals appear very small when you see so much jealousy and envy taken to the next level. Will it ever stop?

I work in a large work environment with many judgmental individuals, but we always will take rumors about a person with a grain of salt. I will work alongside anyone till they have proven themselves TO ME to be unsafe or not trustworthy. Everyone makes mistakes, some own up to them better than others, but some people will never check their ego to make an unbiased decision. How many people in this forum will not step foot in one dive shop or another based on hearsay? How many people will not take a course with a certain instructor based on hearsay? Most importantly, how many people take the high road and keep unsubstantiated gossip to themselves without feeling the need to tell others?

I'll admit I'm a "tourist" diver who makes it down to FL for 3-5 weeks a year. But I'm not far enough away to hear the BS gossip from High Springs to Marianna. I hear/read about people looking out for one another finding gear and leaving it somewhere safe to retrieve. I read the forums where good information is exchanged, sometime with snarky humor. I know there are good people in the sport, but I rarely hear accolades given for the good work others have done from another agency where credit is due.

I'll end my rant by saying that there are many class acts from many agencies. They are always a joy to hang around with and share positive stories with. As instructors, they are sought after. As individuals, they have nothing but friends with kind things to say. I want to be the person who inspires others in a positive way. I want to aspire to be more like the class acts in the sport. I have no room for jealousy and envy! Are you an ambassador for the sport or someone perpetuating the political negativity?

[nakatomi]

Very well said, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

[floridabob]

I have been cave diving nearing 20 years and the politics have always been present. Frankly, even more vehemently in the past.

I do not think its as bad as it has been and I do not think its trending worse. I do not think the NACD or NSS CDS have the same footholds they have had and certainly they would like more members...which keeps it from being too polarized in those two directions. The WKPP has been openly tolerant while maintaining their same operating principles and goals.

So, while I am quite sure there is some BS down here, I dont see it as an interference to the sport/hobby.

I find it entertaining.

By the way, I was allowed to attend the EE Social last Friday and had nice conversations with everyone.

Disclaimer: maybe there is a specific hot button of yours I am neither familiar with nor interested in, so I may not be in the know on your source of excitement.

Bob

[Kelly Jessop]

I have been cave diving nearing 20 years and the politics have always been present. Frankly, even more vehemently in the past.

I do not think its as bad as it has been and I do not think its trending worse.

I think you are absolutely right!!! I have been cave diving same length of time and I remember reading some board meeting minutes that would have ,"a raucous debate followed"- that was a screaming session with personal insults. Heck the CDS owes its formation to cave politics because of the NACD throwing out Sheck Exley. For many they are new to cave diving, and have only been around a year +/-, and this is unnerving,but in reality the NSS (dry caving community) has greater issues. For many North Florida aka "cave country" is somewhat of a fantasy land for many, they look forward to visiting a few times a year, and dream to move there and spend every waking moment cave diving. But in reality, Mickey and Minnie don't always get along. You have shops and instructors competing for business,projects that vie to be the most noted etc.... which is fertile ground for these issues. I agree with Bob that things aren't trending worse,but the fact we have the internet and forums versus 20 years ago all you had was picnic table pontificating, these things get instant communication, and forums will grow molehills into mountains. I don't stress or worry about cave politics because it has never stopped me from getting an air fill, diving the site I want to dive, and there are no drive by shootings at the fill station.

[OFG-1]

You have to understand, in Florida, we all follow the teachings of Master Diver Thomas Roan:

"Be a buddy, tried and true;
**** your friends, 'fore they **** you".

[Bobby]

I also agree with Bob & Kelly. There were times when things were bad & some individuals would leave a dive site if others were there, I don't believe that there is that level of tension today. People come and go with their support, volunteering, etc. however today there is far less tension. The internet does spread things far faster and wider then before hand and some folks take a polarized position. At the end of the day we see more cooperation & tolerance then we have in the past. Look at KURR & the WUKPP for just one example.

[JCGoodwin]

The internet is a blessing and curse.
As Bobbie has touched on and others things spin out of control.
When ever there is a disagreement or issue people are quick to choose sides and throw stones.
Set back and watch both parties usually the truth will be revealed in time.
Human nature is or can be crazy and awesome at the same time.

I do appreciate the willingness for some parties to open up tough issues and work to solve them.
Good can come from change and transparency, however there are always those who are quick to slander or throw stones.
I think there are some really great people in Cave Country and they are the ones who keep the peace as best as they can.
I want to be positive and keep the public opinion of cave diving a good one to ensure dive sights will be not be hindered.

JCG

[FW]

I wondered for a long time why there is so much intrigue in cave diving. I finally figured it out.

Just to become a cave diver, you have to have a strong personality, or you would never stick it out through training. When you have a room full of that type of people, there is bound to be some "head butting"

I also agree with Kelly, Bob, and Bobby. It has gotten better, just a new crop of "head butters"

[cmint]

I was diving on a boat dive in South Florida, and I noticed the divemaster had on a halcyon harness and wing.

I invited him to come up to cave country and dive with me. He replied "Yeah, I used to dive up there, but those cave nazis are A-holes so I don't go any more."

Just so you guys know, when you are rude to other divers you are taking tourist dollars away from the area, and probably money out of your own pockets.

Maybe that's your goal? to run people off so you have less people in the cave and have the caves all to yourself? You're only hurting yourselves and the sport.

[gearhound]

I'll agree with cmint. Our shop used to organize annual trips to Florida. But with all the sniping in all the forums and on Facebook, I take my business to elsewhere. There was just a blowup on the Sidemount Facebook page that had absolutely nothing to do with sidemount diving. Just guys taking runs at each other.

So many of us were trained in Florida, but now we send students to Mexico for training.