Accident Analysis

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Originally Posted by tbone1004

I disliked it. I dislike the fact that the "good ol boy" crowd is throwing smoke and mirrors to hide information from getting out to the public and that is what causes all of the speculation. No one in actual real authority is saying not to publish the information, but it's people in our own community that are trying to keep it hidden and it's bullsh!t. If they're concerned about a lawsuit, get insurance for the IUCRR and ask the agencies to help fund the insurance, or roll it into one of the agencies to protect the divers, whatever they want, but it's crazy that the police are required to publish that kind of information and as a community we go out of our way to hide it.

It's not against him, but I'm not going to like a post that is detrimental to our community. Enough spine?

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I think AJ is bringing light to this Good Ole Boy crowd, as opposed to acting on their behalf. I'm pretty sure AJ is for as much disclosure as needed/possible. No reason to dislike his post(unless you just dislike the facts he is stating).

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Originally Posted by tbone1004

I disliked it. I dislike the fact that the "good ol boy" crowd is throwing smoke and mirrors to hide information from getting out to the public and that is what causes all of the speculation. No one in actual real authority is saying not to publish the information, but it's people in our own community that are trying to keep it hidden and it's bullsh!t. If they're concerned about a lawsuit, get insurance for the IUCRR and ask the agencies to help fund the insurance, or roll it into one of the agencies to protect the divers, whatever they want, but it's crazy that the police are required to publish that kind of information and as a community we go out of our way to hide it.

It's not against him, but I'm not going to like a post that is detrimental to our community. Enough spine?

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Well what do you want me to do? If I just buck the system and go rogue there?s a good chance I wouldn?t be involved in any capacity going forward and then you?d really be up the creek. Real authority is who takes leadership during these situations and calls the shots regarding who gets in the water and actually does something. Show up at 11pm on a Friday and try and negotiate and see how you do.

Any clown with a hammer can tear down a barn. Takes a bit more skill and thought to build one.

I agree with what lord1234 said.

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Originally Posted by tbone1004

I dislike the fact that the "good ol boy" crowd is throwing smoke and mirrors to hide information from getting out to the public and that is what causes all of the speculation.

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I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you suggesting that AJ is trying to cover up something?

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Originally Posted by tbone1004

Enough spine?

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Yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbone1004

I disliked it. I dislike the fact that the "good ol boy" crowd is throwing smoke and mirrors to hide information from getting out to the public and that is what causes all of the speculation. No one in actual real authority is saying not to publish the information, but it's people in our own community that are trying to keep it hidden and it's bullsh!t. If they're concerned about a lawsuit, get insurance for the IUCRR and ask the agencies to help fund the insurance, or roll it into one of the agencies to protect the divers, whatever they want, but it's crazy that the police are required to publish that kind of information and as a community we go out of our way to hide it.

It's not against him, but I'm not going to like a post that is detrimental to our community. Enough spine?

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I am with you in that I would like to have an overt report that we can have. I think the perception of it being a "good ole boys" network comes into play because the same people do the recoveries for the most part, and many are following the paradigm set up by Henry Nicholson, which calls for the reporting of the accident coming from law enforcement and ME, while it is still considered a crime scene.

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Originally Posted by tbone1004

I disliked it. I dislike the fact that the "good ol boy" crowd is throwing smoke and mirrors to hide information from getting out to the public and that is what causes all of the speculation. No one in actual real authority is saying not to publish the information, but it's people in our own community that are trying to keep it hidden and it's bullsh!t. If they're concerned about a lawsuit, get insurance for the IUCRR and ask the agencies to help fund the insurance, or roll it into one of the agencies to protect the divers, whatever they want, but it's crazy that the police are required to publish that kind of information and as a community we go out of our way to hide it.

It's not against him, but I'm not going to like a post that is detrimental to our community. Enough spine?

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Dude really? The whole thread started as a result of AJ lamenting that more information isn't shared, and gave his perspective as a recovery diver and the pressure put upon him not to share (thank you for which, by the way)

Though I do give you credit for owning up to the downvotes...

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Originally Posted by PfcAJ

I was given no guidance by the police at any time. Other divers though... different story. VERY clear direction to not say a word.

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AJ, thank you for your past work you have done. For those that haven't done a recovery it is very stressful situation, and not only for the actual recovery in water, but the situation topside. The recovery divers also get a backlash,because once people know they were involved, their phone will ring off the hook from curious parties, which means you relive every hour on the hour.

People want information right away when there is an accident. Question I have, have we avoided any accidents by having instantaneous information, or should I say,a refractory period of getting information out there, has that facilitated another accident? I can truthfully say I know of one situation where rapid information dissemination saved lives, and that was a bad gas incident,but that was the very rare situation and wasn't a true cave diving accident.

Thanks again AJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbone1004

I disliked it. I dislike the fact that the "good ol boy" crowd is throwing smoke and mirrors to hide information from getting out to the public and that is what causes all of the speculation. No one in actual real authority is saying not to publish the information, but it's people in our own community that are trying to keep it hidden and it's bullsh!t. If they're concerned about a lawsuit, get insurance for the IUCRR and ask the agencies to help fund the insurance, or roll it into one of the agencies to protect the divers, whatever they want, but it's crazy that the police are required to publish that kind of information and as a community we go out of our way to hide it.

It's not against him, but I'm not going to like a post that is detrimental to our community. Enough spine?

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I have heard for many years about this deep state "good ole boys" network. What I don't like about it is the basic assumption that there are that many North Florida cave divers around anymore that can agree on anything, even where to get lunch.

How is the information that AJ is passing along detrimental? Aren't you shooting the messenger?

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

AJ, thank you for your past work you have done. For those that haven't done a recovery it is very stressful situation, and not only for the actual recovery in water, but the situation topside. The recovery divers also get a backlash,because once people know they were involved, their phone will ring off the hook from curious parties, which means you relive every hour on the hour.

People want information right away when there is an accident. Question I have, have we avoided any accidents by having instantaneous information, or should I say,a refractory period of getting information out there, has that facilitated another accident? I can truthfully say I know of one situation where rapid information dissemination saved lives, and that was a bad gas incident,but that was the very rare situation and wasn't a true cave diving accident.

Thanks again AJ

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I can’t reaosnably conclude what impact speed in reporting has. But I suspect that people’s interest really cools and the result is no one pressing for the info to be released. So it isn’t.

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Originally Posted by PfcAJ

I was given no guidance by the police at any time. Other divers though... different story. VERY clear direction to not say a word.

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I guess the real question is what were the reasons given to you at that time?

I have to agree with Kelly, I can see reasons to hold off giving all of the gory details instantly. I would think that common decency would allow for some time for the family to make some arrangements. Does anyone object to at least getting the dead guy buried before we start dissecting his mistakes? I would qualify that in if a piece of common equipment catastrophically failed, or bad gas, then that should be discussed.

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

I guess the real question is what were the reasons given to you at that time?

I have to agree with Kelly, I can see reasons to hold off giving all of the gory details instantly. I would think that common decency would allow for some time for the family to make some arrangements. Does anyone object to at least getting the dead guy buried before we start dissecting his mistakes? I would qualify that in if a piece of common equipment catastrophically failed, or bad gas, then that should be discussed.

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they were worried about lawsuits in the recovery i participated in