Next set of SM cylinders, what should I get?

[bent]

Sorry, my agency doesn't recognize "intro" I can dive 3rds, make nav decisions among other things... don't judge based on Draker's opinion of me :P

I'm not judging upon what James said. You said you weren't full cave yet, which usually means intro. Unless it's that odd naui system or whatever some of these gue knock-offs do.

James got a point about knowing were not to swim and technique though. IIRC it was actually James that told me where not to swim in Ginnie after my first dive there.

85s are already getting you into deco in Ginnie btw.

Part of his plan is having larger tanks for non-cave diving, I think a quarry,but it makes perfect sense to work on trim related to using these tanks while in a non-cave environment, then transition to cave. What is one rationale for doubles versus single tank intro to cave. you got more gas to address issues. 95/108s provide that level of gas needed- lets take the training wheels off that bike and learn how to ride.

I agree with all of this. It just sounds to me like he's not gonna get much use out of larger tanks at this point.

[twaldo]

I'm not judging upon what James said. You said you weren't full cave yet, which usually means intro. Unless it's that odd naui system or whatever some of these gue knock-offs do.

James got a point about knowing were not to swim and technique though. IIRC it was actually James that told me where not to swim in Ginnie after my first dive there.

85s are already getting you into deco in Ginnie btw.


I agree with all of this. It just sounds to me like he's not gonna get much use out of larger tanks at this point.

Yes, NAUI, Cave1.... And I totally get knowing "where" to swim... just like reading the rapids in whitewater, make the river do your work for you... except its harder to read the water when its hitting you right in the face and pretty much clear... Ginnie and LR are my motivation for a bit more air for this reason... Don't need a stress test at the MD because I get it every time I dive Ginnie.. I'm good once I'm past the lips but just like hitting the gas pedal on a blown 460... I watch my air pressure drop just like the fuel guage in the hotrod when making the swim to the lips....
have only ever gone into deco ONCE at Ginnie... and it technically wasn't deco because I forgot to set my computer to 32% and it thought I was on air.... I did my "time" because well.. going to have to sooner or later anyway.. so LP85's are not even getting me into Deco yet at least not there... came closer at LR and even then is 10 minutes close?



And not specific to you but I ask everyone I dive with "how did I look, anything I could change or do better" after completing a cave dive and no one has had major issues , little tweaks or suggestions... just as I have for them (I mean Forrest I obviously had nothing to say to, but other not so distinguished divers) yet it seems the people that want to critique me do it having never even dove with me and pull totally irrelevant photos of me in open water as examples. I'm surprised he didn't find the one of me upside down drifting....and use it.

Anyway, thanks for not being so negative as prior posts.

Tim

[Draker]

And not specific to you but I ask everyone I dive with "how did I look, anything I could change or do better" after completing a cave dive and no one has had major issues , little tweaks or suggestions...

Let me be the first to tell you. Nothing about this sidemount configuration looks good.
You have major configuration issues, and more than just a few little tweaks need to be made.
I?d suggest you learn to dive sidemount properly, with the help of a qualified, competent and knowledgeable instructor.

https://youtu.be/JKDf42SKln8



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[rddvet]

Are you taking full cave with the instructor who passed you for cave 1?


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[kensuf]

Yes, NAUI, Cave1.... And I totally get knowing "where" to swim... just like reading the rapids in whitewater, make the river do your work for you... except its harder to read the water when its hitting you right in the face and pretty much clear... Ginnie and LR are my motivation for a bit more air for this reason... Don't need a stress test at the MD because I get it every time I dive Ginnie.. I'm good once I'm past the lips but just like hitting the gas pedal on a blown 460... I watch my air pressure drop just like the fuel guage in the hotrod when making the swim to the lips....
have only ever gone into deco ONCE at Ginnie... and it technically wasn't deco because I forgot to set my computer to 32% and it thought I was on air.... I did my "time" because well.. going to have to sooner or later anyway.. so LP85's are not even getting me into Deco yet at least not there... came closer at LR and even then is 10 minutes close?



And not specific to you but I ask everyone I dive with "how did I look, anything I could change or do better" after completing a cave dive and no one has had major issues , little tweaks or suggestions... just as I have for them (I mean Forrest I obviously had nothing to say to, but other not so distinguished divers) yet it seems the people that want to critique me do it having never even dove with me and pull totally irrelevant photos of me in open water as examples. I'm surprised he didn't find the one of me upside down drifting....and use it.

Anyway, thanks for not being so negative as prior posts.

Tim

It's not about looking at the water, reading the cave means looking at the shape of the cave and recognizing where the water flows and where it doesn't. Here's a simple analogy: Driving on the interstate, if you're in an open lane with no one in front of you, you're mileage will be X. However, if you're right on the rear bumper of an 18 wheeler you're in their draft and your gas mileage goes up, saving you gas and making your car work less. But, if you're roughly 30' behind the truck you're in the turbulence and your gas mileage is worse than not being behind the truck at all.

There's the easy way to dive in flow (learn from a mentor or instructor how to read the cave) and the hard way (don't). Reading this thread, it seems like you've made up your mind even though multiple people have tried to offer you solid advice.

[rddvet]

It's not about looking at the water, reading the cave means looking at the shape of the cave and recognizing where the water flows and where it doesn't. Here's a simple analogy: Driving on the interstate, if you're in an open lane with no one in front of you, you're mileage will be X. However, if you're right on the rear bumper of an 18 wheeler you're in their draft and your gas mileage goes up, saving you gas and making your car work less. But, if you're roughly 30' behind the truck you're in the turbulence and your gas mileage is worse than not being behind the truck at all.

There's the easy way to dive in flow (learn from a mentor or instructor how to read the cave) and the hard way (don't). Reading this thread, it seems like you've made up your mind even though multiple people have tried to offer you solid advice.

I believe that?s referred to as the Ricky Bobby technique.

[bent]

Anyway, thanks for not being so negative as prior posts.

I was not being negative, I just gave my honest assessement based on what you wrote and on the picture. I don't know what the deal is with you an draker but what he's been posting doesn't sound negativ to me... it's what an instructor would tell you in a class. Unless that instructor has a very sloppy style. Trim, kick and configuration in that youtube video is not cave-ready. IMHO that's being objectiv. It looks self-taught.

And not specific to you but I ask everyone I dive with "how did I look, anything I could change or do better" after completing a cave dive and no one has had major issues , little tweaks or suggestions... just as I have for them (I mean Forrest I obviously had nothing to say to, but other not so distinguished divers) yet it seems the people that want to critique me do it having never even dove with me and pull totally irrelevant photos of me in open water as examples.

I don't think that's a good strategy. In my experience most people will hold back when you asked stuff like that. Unless you have a good regular buddy who doesn't mind comming across as rude, you're likely not getting the best feedback from them. Also, full training days and a few tipps and little tweaks are not the same thing.

[bent]

However, if you're right on the rear bumper of an 18 wheeler you're in their draft and your gas mileage goes up, saving you gas and making your car work less. But, if you're roughly 30' behind the truck you're in the turbulence and your gas mileage is worse than not being behind the truck at all.

I don't know about that analogy. When have Mercians ever considered gas mileage?

[MikeT]

You might be amazed at how much you can ?extend? a dive through improved technique, proper trim, and a streamlined configuration.
I?d focus more on improving your skills, gaining experience, and learning how to better read the first 1000? of cave before I?d worry about trying to manage larger cylinders and hoping to go farther.

Either way, good luck.


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+10000

This is really the only advice you need from this thread. (Besides finding an instructor or mentor who will beat this paradigm into you)

[twaldo]

It's not about looking at the water, reading the cave means looking at the shape of the cave and recognizing where the water flows and where it doesn't. Here's a simple analogy: Driving on the interstate, if you're in an open lane with no one in front of you, you're mileage will be X. However, if you're right on the rear bumper of an 18 wheeler you're in their draft and your gas mileage goes up, saving you gas and making your car work less. But, if you're roughly 30' behind the truck you're in the turbulence and your gas mileage is worse than not being behind the truck at all.

There's the easy way to dive in flow (learn from a mentor or instructor how to read the cave) and the hard way (don't). Reading this thread, it seems like you've made up your mind even though multiple people have tried to offer you solid advice.

no, I get it I can see where the eddy's are , the whitewater references was just to say that where river reading is pretty visual, reading water in a cave is not so much on the visual side. And your right I am choosing to ignore most of the posts about my sidemount configurations because well, this thread was about logical progression on cylinders. The only people I will listen to about my sidemount are people who are actively my instructors or people I am diving with or have dove with. Honestly of everyone posting you are the closest I have come to diving with because we tend to run into each other at dive sites, I don't think we have ever actually been in cave at the same time though (possibly Kelly as well).