Ginnie Cave DPV

[oya]

I recently ran a CCR Cave Upgrade (crossover from OC to CCR) for a friend that is a fairly accomplished OC diver (~800ish cave dives, many of them exploration, used to hold the end of the line in Madison, Manatee, and Ginnie all at the same time, plus some very big mapping projects and a lot of deep diving).

Given that we had been planning on diving that weekend for a few months, and he and I had previously done some longer CCR dives (scootering to Sheck's Mountain, etc), we were very informal in the class, but I covered all of the material and skills in the CCR Cave course anyway -- I'm a by the book guy.

After the weekend was over, he told me he learned a few tricks during the course that added arrows into his quiver. YMMV, but if a guy like that could learn something during a few days of diving with an instructor...

This post should be required reading for everyone whinging about the new Ginnie rules. Or possibly everyone, full stop.

[jason]

Al, the same logic could apply to the divers who perished at School sink. Did the CDS attorney use this as a defense? I don't think they did for a reason.

The potential difference is that school sink is geographically isolated (and privately owned) whereas the Santa Fe River is a state-owned water way. So, by entering the river or spring run, a person has left Ginnie property.

[Daedalus]

The potential difference is that school sink is geographically isolated (and privately owned) whereas the Santa Fe River is a state-owned water way. So, by entering the river or spring run, a person has left Ginnie property.

And then depending where they go in the cave they go back onto it.

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[bamafan]

One thing I was told is that the Sportmans Law exemption doesn't apply if they charge any fees to access the site. As assinin as the rules are they own the sandbox so if you want to play in it you have to abide by their rules. Personally I just go elsewhere. I enjoy the river caves much more than dealing with a bunch of idiots.

[MarkR]

And then depending where they go in the cave they go back onto it.

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Please explain... are you saying that GSO owns the actual cave under their property? Even the map they sell in the shop show very little of the Devils system is south of the river bank.

[Daedalus]

Please explain... are you saying that GSO owns the actual cave under their property? Even the map they sell in the shop show very little of the Devils system is south of the river bank.

Yes, I believe they do. That's also why I said "depending on where they go in the cave." There's no such thing as an underground & underwater "navigable waterway."

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[Kelly Jessop]

One thing I was told is that the Sportmans Law exemption doesn't apply if they charge any fees to access the site.

I think the Sportsman's law in one thing we keep calling on,but is really poorly understood. If the Sportman's law was that the savior we wish it was, we would still have access at Telford. They lost a lawsuit from someone getting injured on their property, which they weren't charging access to, and their fear of more lawsuits and liability is what caused the closure of the property.

[MarkR]

Yes, I believe they do. That's also why I said "depending on where they go in the cave." There's no such thing as an underground & underwater "navigable waterway."

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So by this logic, owning the cave under their property, gives them "control" of very little. I.e. Little Devils, the eye, half of the bone room and down past the big room. Right?

Who owns the property on the north side of the Santa Fe?

[Daedalus]

So by this logic, owning the cave under their property, gives them "control" of very little. I.e. Little Devils, the eye, half of the bone room and down past the big room. Right?

Who owns the property on the north side of the Santa Fe?

That's a different question.

As for who owns the other side of the river, I would defer to whatever is listed on the property appraisers office.

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[jason]

And then depending where they go in the cave they go back onto it.

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So this is the legal theory that I thought could have been interesting for the School sink lawsuit, if the victims were located in sections of the cave that extended beyond the property.