Except, from reading the description, she was already well into her 2nd third and attempting to go against the flow. Going back wasn't an option (or at least not a safe one).
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Except, from reading the description, she was already well into her 2nd third and attempting to go against the flow. Going back wasn't an option (or at least not a safe one).
I guess it also depends a lot how much you have dove the system.
To understand how much residual gas is needed to get out from specific point along the grand tour in Ginnie is fairly easy accomplished with very few dives..
So from that perspective I can understand the reeling in practice.
But yes, for her it was a trust me dive especially the forced "shorter" exit..
Situational awareness was not great as well though as she should have been complaining the moment the continuous line from the way in was removed..
When I did the tour the first time, I had insisted that we leave reels in (we did the tour with scooter so not a very long dive after all) and then simply do the same dive again but reverse, when we would pull the reels, because exit then would have been verified..
The buddy I dove with was not extremely happy with the proceeding and would have preferred to pull right away, but it also took not a lot of discussion to do it that way..
I don't think the reeling them in is something taught/condoned in the cave classes, but it is fairly common practice for better or for worse. If the gold line was verified recently *within the previous several days*, then I have 0 issues doing a blind jump back onto gold. We don't actually use a reel, but one diver will "jump" and once he's over, flag the others to come over.
This was definitely a weird scenario since thirds had been broken and the diver in question wasn't familiar with the system etc etc, but had I been in that situation, I wouldn't have let her go back into the flow for the route back
Good discussion. My first thought is, the diver should have said something about his or her capabilities!
What kind of questions would have captured that this could become an issue?
1 - Have you done a circuit before?
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I had a similar incident many years ago. A very experienced cave diver and I went into Devils, the main line was just past the Keyhole then, we went up to what was the Hill 400 jump, and jumped onto the Hill 400 line using my trusty fly fishing reel. There was no gold line, no arrows at that time, just clothespins. For whatever reason, my partner put the clothespin on the wrong side of the jump. On exit, he insisted that you had to turn left to exit, I put the jump in, and I knew we jumped left to get into the Hill 400 tunnel. We had a interesting few exchanges of notes on a slate, I showed him the direction of flow, but he was convinced that he put the pin in correctly. By now, we were getting to less than 1/2 air and had only back gas, and finally, I told him to follow me for 5 minutes and if we did not get to the cornflakes, we would turn around. He finally agreed, and we swam out. You have no idea how many people, experienced people, are around today because of gold line and arrows. (Thanks Forrest)
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The gold line was Lamar, not me.Originally Posted by OFG-1
The OP said the diver saw the gold line, and the arrows, so they didn't seem to convince her.
If I'm reading this correctly it's discussing the big room circuit, and placing a jump at the park bench on your way in makes the jump at the maple leaf a jump from one line to the exit to another line to the exit.
I don't even think "reeling them in" or using a spool at all would be necessary there unless the vis is blown. You can see the gold line from the start of the bone line.
That part of the dive logistic sounds legit for full cave divers that are familiar with the route. (The first time someone dives it, it should be done in two dives as Garth pointed out.) The part about the certification level and the turn pressures? not so much.
Does anyone think that this intro diver would have been invited on this dive or participated in it had she been equipped in a single tank w/ h-valve?
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Just to play devil's advocate here. But doing a jump to the gold line as you discussed can be perceive as a degradation of basic learned safety procedures. While I would say that its a very benign "blind jump" it is still complacency. So it can be assumed that complacency breeds further complacency.
So while yes, it can be agreed upon that its a very benign act, it is still complacent. Why not place the jump and leave it. We all know ginnie's not likely to get blown. But what if some untrained scooter diver breaks the gold line in his prop? Obviously this is very unlikely.
I'm not giving my opinion, just giving the counterpoint that though benign, it is still complacency no matter how you slice it. "Reeling your buddies in" isnt on the list of safe cave diving practices because it breaks the cardinal rule of continuous guidline of a known safe exit.
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big power full brand new scooter and a new cave diver and some gold line...where did the gold line go it was there yesterday?!?
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