The only seismic event I have experienced is Edwards when Amtrack comes by. Don't like it!
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The only seismic event I have experienced is Edwards when Amtrack comes by. Don't like it!
"Is this thing on?"
One of the purposes of this thread is to collect experiences of others,and allow people to learn. I have had two bad experiences with sand having either trapped me or blocked my exit. The bad thing with sand is when you push sand out of the way,frequently it flows back into the hole you just dug. I remember I was about to enter a blue water tunnel that had a tight restriction,and my body plugging the hole was allowing sand that was being pushed back by the flow to enter my space. Thankfully my alert buddy saw what was happening and stopped me because I was about to have a slope of sand to backslide into the restriction. I remember doing some research on a passage in a system I was working in,and the original explorers told me about a sandvalanche. In order to get through the restriction and into the room you had to made a sand slope unstable and slide with the sand. Making anything unstable to allow my access is something I really don't need to see.Originally Posted by John L.
"Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick
Good point. I have found the problem with Cow hasn't been the woods that were clear cut as much as the areas dug up by artifact hunters,and denuded vegetation caused by people walking down the trail. When we would get heavy rain the surface soil and sand would wash into the basin and into the cave. Ever noticed the restriction into upstream Cow can get smaller? If you ever look at the material causing this it is mostly sand. I was hoping the CDS project out there would fix some of this.
"Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick
Wasn't there some type of sand slide in Madison many many years ago? That was documented in nss magazine
The only time I've had my exit blocked was when I came out of Sin Nombre in Cozumel and someone whose name sounded an awfully like "Sandy" was filling up the exit from the cave.
There was that guy in Europe who died a year or two ago going through a restriction with the sand sloughing back down the angle of repose as he was digging through. But that was just the configuration of the cave, I think, not an "event."
Land of Enchantment -- not so great for cave diving, but mighty scenic!
Once again, I'll mention the collapse of the Century Tunnel in Madison. When you swim over what is now a debris pile, most of todays divers will not realize that there is, or rather was, a deep section of the cave under all that rock. Just take a look at the ceiling in that area and check out that large recessed area. What used to be "up there" is now "down there"!
Brent
Yes, it was 1999. The Bruic family owned it then. Mike Bruic had ask Steve Berman to inspect the location which was at the HalfHitch. At that time Gary Gentile was down so Steve ask me and Gary to join him on the dive.
The reason I remember this so well is what happened. Steve was leading the dive, I was in the middle followed by Gary. When we came to the sand slide we could see the line going under the sand and reappear about 8 feet away. Now instead of gaping the jump we ALL visually jumped it and went further into the cave.
Once we turned the dive I was still in the middle and Gary was now the lead diver. Once we came back upon the sand slide I knew we had messed up. It must have shifted some more because we now had a huge cloud of zero vis to swim thru.
With no line to follow since it was buried Gary shot into the cloud and I followed. I ran straight into a wall of solid rock. I rose to the ceiling and could see faintly TWO lights shining toward me. Somehow Steve had bypassed me and both him and Gary were now on the line.
I joined them and we all exited the cave alive. I also remembering making the comment somebody is going to die here. The following weekend my comment came back to hunt me. Two were loss.i
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Supposedly the longer wavelength of the waves underground tend to lift the whole cave, rather than cause a lot of destruction. Once it hits the surface it refracts out and the orbital waves that generates are what cause most of the damage. There are of course variations on that but caves generally aren't an especially dangerous place during earthquakes. At least this is what I remember from geophysics.
I've been underground during a couple of smaller ones but we didn't even know it until we got out.
I've seen some really big rocks move and had to quickstep sometimes. Had a ~500lb piece of breakdown smash my leg a little in one (that happens to have plentiful slickensides) and I thought it had broken something for a minute. But I was still intact, if a bit bruised.
Generally I think loose sand/gravel or breakdown are probably more dangerous. It's already loose, and there is often plenty of it. The breakdown is not normally as big a deal underwtater because you're not walking on it, but the potential is still there. Big, virgin breakdown in a dry cave can get scary when multi-ton pieces start sliding about.
@brent the century tunnel, is that on the left when going towards the godzillan room. There's a large drop on the left. I wanted to check that area when I did the circuit. Loved the look of that drop
@slowdiver. I knew this would trigger a response. Thanks for the info. Was the slide at the hitch or close by? I don't recall large areas of sand when I dove there.
It was the left side going into the hitch. The line ran against that wall close to the floor. The slide had already covered the primary line and Mike had run a white line over the sandpile. When we had entered the cave Mike's new line was now buried so that should have told us something but back then I was invincible.
Also it was like driving a car into fog. May not be able to see the road but you can make out a cars headlights.
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