I was just there a few weeks back with an open water buddy who I've dove with enough to know he is a safe diver-he just has no interest in caves, except he dives Buford from time to time and helped us find it.
At one point I was up to my neck in mud, and the mud was sucking parts off of my camera rig! The water was greenish that day as well. Quite a hike, not sure it would be fun with more than 3 people there at once.
Originally Posted by JJ1987
I spoke to the organizer today. He it's in cave training with Johnny Richards.
He was a pleasure to talk to and i feel confident that I got the safety message across. He said that all but one of the divers are at a minimum Cavern certified (1 is GUE Cave since 1999).
The next time they have a trip to Buford the will list the trip with a minimum certification of cavern.
Good job Walter! Maybe you saved someone.
Well done Walt.
Beside the nasty trekk to the site, it looks like a great site....but dangerous if there's an issue
Thanks Walter.
Joe
Actually, it is deceptively difficult.
I know people have been debating this, but the way to determine which is right is to remove the adjective. For example, "I have a car" is correct, and adding an adjective to make "I have a red car" doesn't change it, it just gives a little more information. "Buford is a difficult dive" is correct, and "Buford is a deceptively difficult dive" just adds the fact that it isn't readily apparent how difficult it is.
Now back to your regularly scheduled debate. And thank you for educating those folks.
Whoever said money can't buy love never bought a puppy.
I was hesitant to post here, but as I am not one to hide behind a keyboard or remain silent.
I was the "idiot" stuck in the mud in the picture previously posted. Picking apart a fun day from one picture where three friends went for a walk in the swamp with scuba gear on is pretty easy to do. But for me that was one of the greatest dive days I have ever had. I wasn't even waist deep, but fell to my knees which made the picture that much better. It's not always the dive but the adventure getting there. It won't likely matter to some, but everyone that day was certified at the Master Diver level or better, none of us were right out of open water class. Three MD's and an Intro Cave diver to be exact.
I would like to take a moment to thank Walter for his phone call. When I reposted the information to Buford Sink today I was unaware that it had come directly from his website. I had posted some information that was forwarded to me as a description of the dive several months back. I took the information down immediatly at his request. I also gained some respect for him for the actions he took today. He saw something he didn't agree with, and instead of commenting on a forum he took the time to have an intelligent conversation and I thank him sincerely for his valued input.
I see where it was listed as an open water dive. This was incorrect and I see the mistake that was made in its posting. I am by no means any sort of expert and consider myself new to the diving community. I myself have been out to this site at least 5 different days for diving. We have been out there several time and called the dive due to either the conditions of the path on the walk in or dark water. There was mention of the advanced level of this dive all throughout the page. There was numerous mention to diving within your limits. I believe this dive can be done at three levels, advanced open water, cavern and cave. I'm sure we could debate this from all sides and never come to an agreement.
Last time I was out there this was a hole in the ground that went straight down to about 100.' To me this sounds like an advanced open water dive similar to Hudson Grotto or maybe at a stretch Blue Springs State Park. Both of which can be dive the day after your first open water class. Its not as restricted as something like Paradise Springs which to me, is more of a cavern dive than Buford, but open to open water divers. The thing that makes Buford challenging is its remote location and lack of any sort of facilities. The dive itself once at the pool, is pretty straight forward. I've been out spearfishing in 200' of water, that doesn't mean that I am going all the way to the bottom. As stated several time there is plenty to see above 60'
I understand that by commenting on here I will likely open myself up to several different opinions that will likely be expressed to me or at me, but I'm ready for that.
What draws me back to somewhere like Buford is that every time I get the chance to dive there I always get that feeling that I'm the only one who has ever dove here before. I'm fairly good, not always perfect, about diving within my limits. As I have heard from several sources there are no scuba police waiting at 60' 130' or at that cave sign pointing you to go back. Its up to each of us to make sure that we stay within the limits of our own training and experience.
Once again, thank you for the phone call Walter. I hope we have the chance to dive together someday. I'll keep in touch. Instead of mocking and belittling, you came across friendly and informative.
If anyone else is serious about joining us tomorrow, I'd love to meet you, I'm always willing to make new dive buddies. I'll be there about 9:15 or so.
I am pleased to see that you are open to more learning. However, I feel I must point out that a Master Diver card is worthless in the overhead. All it means is the diver has made fifty open water dives. (I consider someone with fifty dives a new diver.)
Surviving several overhead dives without training doesn't mean you'll survive the next one - please get trained. (We cave divers aren't always jerks; we're just adamant about training!)
Whoever said money can't buy love never bought a puppy.
Brandon, be safe and have fun!
Buford is the dive that really made me want to receive training for cave diving. Maybe peering off into the darkness at Catfish hotel, realizing that it connects over into manatee was a close second. I did go and get my cavern certification, now I'm doing my best to get a few dives in in doubles before I go back and take intro. Buford exceeds the limits of a cavern diving certification down toward the bottom.
I agree 100% about getting training before diving in overhead, but my opinion is that Buford is not an overhead enviorment in the upper section. The deep section should be off limits to those without the proper training, not just overhead, but deep diving training/trimix as well.
If you look, you will see my comments on the meetup page that stated I planned on diving N32, and staying above the 100' range. To me this stills seems like open water.
If Buford had a boardwalk, showers and a parking lot, would this still be as advanced of a dive as everyone makes it out to be? If at that 100' depth I still had direct access to the surface is this a cave or cavern dive? Or like someone else mentioned, its it a dive in a deep hole? Assuming that its done within NDL.
I understand that i might be taking an unpopular opinion here. Call it a cave, get cave training is the easy answer to my question. I'm here to learn, so that I can become a better diver, and continue to do something that I really enjoy. Rest assured I have already expressed my interest to my instructor to continue thru into after getting a bit more comfortable in a new gear configuration.
I am always interested in more training, same as I am always interested in a new experience.
I'm not trying to flame or troll.
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