Poll- Do you agree with the CDS getting out of the C- Card business?

[CGriffing]

I can see the high level of respect you have for the organization when you make references to it becoming irrelevant and doomed to failure, but you don't want to get into specifics on who will cause it, why, or how it will come about. You seem only interested in playing games and avoiding questions that oppose your idea. You seem to know what I am thinking when you are way off base. You revel in the possibility of some kind of action against you and then show disappointment when you realize it wasn't going to go that way. Curious.

[cerich]

I laid out very clearly at the conference and also in my postings here the reasons why i felt the CDS is in danger of being not relevant in the soon future. I've said it a few times a few different ways but the message hasn't changed. One thing that, yes, I have found amusing is your propensity to accuse others of your own behaviour, in specific to your last post you accuse me of avoiding questions that oppose my idea when I have written a metric sh&t load of posts doing just that when your responses have been to accuse me of everything from attacking the CDS, trying to destroy it,being defensive, and a whole bunch of stuff that anybody can just read by going back thru this thread and others. Yet you have avoided almost every question I and others have asked you.

Tell me what it is YOU want me to do at this point? Say, "gee guys guess I was wrong, I think everything is just awesome the way things are so keep calm and cave on?" I don't, so I shan't.

Good night Carl, we'll pick this up in the morrow I am sure.

be safe

I can see the high level of respect you have for the organization when you make references to it becoming irrelevant and doomed to failure, but you don't want to get into specifics on who will cause it, why, or how it will come about. You seem only interested in playing games and avoiding questions that oppose your idea. You seem to know what I am thinking when you are way off base. You revel in the possibility of some kind of action against you and then show disappointment when you realize it wasn't going to go that way. Curious.

[CGriffing]

I have answered questions Chris. I may have missed some, but it is not in an effort to avoid them, but more likely I was focused on other aspects of the conversation. In some of your posts, you pose questions, but then answer them yourself (see your post above this one as an example), so I don't know that you are actually asking me those questions and/or I feel that you already provided the answers you wanted. Debate and discussion are healthy, particularly in this matter. I will say that I find some of your behavior by way of what you write on here, such as (paraphrased)'take action against me and see what good that will do you', quite puzzling. Especially since that was not even something I had even remotely considered. No, I do not expect you to give in; you are so determined you are right, that I don't think anything will change that. That is not my reason for the questions. I am just trying to understand you and your position.

Be good.

[Greenwood_60]

How many of those TDI instructors also teach for a non-profit cave agency? I know for a fact that mine did.

As did mine. I was given an option between NACD, NSS-CDS, and TDI. I picked TDI for various reasons. None of them were leniency.

[Jont]

So, for anyone who disagrees with your plan, they are not being proactive and wish to make the CDS become irrelevant? I find it quite disturbing that you take an adversarial approach to anyone who questions your plan or disagrees with it, rather than assuming a welcoming attitude and fostering good relations in a good faith attempt to get them on board. Something is very wrong here.

CG,

You are taking this much to personally, arguments are healthy and necessary, Chris proposed an idea that he honestly believes is in the best interests of the CDS and you find it "disturbing" have accused him of being "adversarial" well of course its adversarial....its supposed to be, he defends his idea when we all try and punch holes it or support it......thats fair and necessary but that doesn't mean you should try and attack his character by making statements like the above nonsense.....why because he didnt call you?

Its OK stay focused on the issue rather then the messenger.

[Superlyte27]

Only fitting that Jont would be the one coming to Cerich's defense. LOL... birds of a feather.

[CGriffing]

I am not attacking Chris's character nor am I trying to discredit him as an instructor, businessman, or CDS member. I am not calling into question his morals or principles, so don't accuse me of something I am not doing. I have respect for Chris, and for his accomplishments as an instructor and businessman. I am not his enemy and I do not consider him mine. We merely have a difference of opinion on this subject matter with which we are dealing.

I was, however, calling into question his behavior in matters concerning this subject. From very early on, Chris has used sarcasm, mockery, and treating things like a joke in his responses to me and others, all of which are classic discrediting tactics. And then there's his tactic of 'if we don't agree with him, then we want the CDS to fail / become irrelevant' and just treating those who oppose his idea with contempt. I get it that he doesn't like us countering his ideas. And, no, Jont, a lack of a phone conversation is not what this is about, so please do not imagine drama when there is none.

[Jont]

Chris has used sarcasm, mockery, and treating things like a joke in his responses to me and others, all of which are classic discrediting tactics. And then there's his tactic of 'if we don't agree with him, then we want the CDS to fail / become irrelevant' and just treating those who oppose his idea with contempt. I get it that he doesn't like us countering his ideas. And, no, Jont, a lack of a phone conversation is not what this is about, so please do not imagine drama when there is none.

CG:

Really?? Its time for big boy pants and its time to lighten up.

[Jont]

Only fitting that Jont would be the one coming to Cerich's defense. LOL... birds of a feather.

Ultimate Cave Diver you can do better then that, I wouldn't expect something so obvious to come from you, maybe its time for a name change like "Satisfactory Cave Diver" or "Average Cave Diver" with obvious comments like yours "Ultimate" seems like a stretch.........

[Superlyte27]

Ultimate Cave Diver you can do better then that, I wouldn't expect something so obvious to come from you, maybe its time for a name change like "Satisfactory Cave Diver" or "Average Cave Diver" with obvious comments like yours "Ultimate" seems like a stretch.........

LOL... what a dork.
Hurry up and come back to Florida. All that New York air is going to your head.