Some CCR help

[Attchoum]

I'm also curious what is wrong with the revo???

[MedCop]

Nothing wrong with rEvo, it is one of the best rebreathers on the market.

[icestac]

Just out of curiousity what's up with rEvo's?

I'm also curious what is wrong with the revo???

I think he was being sarcastic, hence the smiley face

Cheers,
Jeff

[icestac]

Tony started a good thread on The Deco Stop http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47818 regarding the costs of OC vs CCR.

Is a CCR more expensive than OC? I took the last 2 months of my dive log, and broke them down to make an interesting comparison on the costs of diving closed circuit versus open circuit. It's something I've always wanted to compare, but never got around to doing.

In the past 2 months, I did 21 dives total.
6 dives above 130
4 dives 130-200
6 dives 200-280
5 dives 280-350

All of these dives were conducted on my rebreather. For those unaware, the cost of diving CCR does not vary based on depth, so a 30 foot dive, costs me the same as a dive to 400 feet. The cost of diving the CCR is broken down by the hour. 1 helium diluent fill, and 1 oxygen fill cost $10, and will last me 3 hours. 1 sorb cassette holds 3lbs of sorb, and will get me 3 hours in warm water. Sorb costs $129 for a 44lb jug, which breaks down to about $3.25 per hour. For those following with their calculators, I've accounted 4lbs for waste, and spillage. This means the rEvo costs me about $7 per hour to dive. Since on many dives, I use fresh fills, and fresh sorb regardless of how much time I have left, let's double that figure to $14/hour.

Obviously with an OC diver, the gas needs to be appropriate for the depth you are diving to. 2 scenarios exist, one you own a single set of doubles, and you drain them and fill them with the appropriate mix each time. The second scenario is you own multiple sets of doubles, (adding gear expense) and you top off the appropriate mix each time. If you're fortunate enough to live near a shop that banks trimix, you can do option 2, but most other locations as I am aware, require you to drain them for filling trimix. For the purposes of this comparison, we'll assume you're filling the same set for each dive, and hence must be drained each time.

All of my dives above 130 were long enough profiles where I could not conduct on a single cylinder. (Not with an acceptable air reserve anyway.) However for this comparison, we'll just assume each 130 foot dive is a recreational, single tank profile.

For the dives above 130 feet, would require a single cylinder filled with 32%. A typical nitrox fill around here is $10 per tank.

For dives in the 130-200 range would require a fill of 21/35 at .35 per cubic foot, plus a fill of a deco gas, lets say 40 cubic feet of 50% at .35 per cubic foot. This makes the total for this dive $84.

For dives in the 200-280 range, I'd use 15/55 at .55 per cubic foot, plus 40cf of 50% and 40cf of O2, for a total of $138, and dives in the 280-350 range are a similar price for the gas.

So had I dove the past 2 months on open-circuit, I would have spent $1,914 on gas. Doing the same dives on my CCR (31 hours 41 minutes in total,) based on the above figures would have been $439.74 on fills and sorb. In reality is was much lower.

So how long until the rebreather pays for itself? Well, using a popular tech diving website, I added up the cost of a new OC tech diving rig, to include expenses like tanks, bottom timers, regulators, doubles wings, and deco bottles. I left off items that both divers would need, such as lights, masks, fins, etc. According to this website, the cost for all of this was $5204. Let's take 20% off this figure to be fair, and because people will say that no one buys all their stuff new. So we'll call it $4100.

My rEvo mCCR cost me $6633 for the complete unit. Cylinder were another $500. My bailout bottles were from my OC days, but I figure them new to be $562 each when new (x3.) This makes my total CCR investment $8,819. Plus training ($2000) brings the total to $10,819. To be fair, lets add another 20% for all the gadgets, and add-ons I've tried and purchased over the years, and for cell replacement. This brings my grand total to just under $13,000. The difference in my sample OC investment, and my CCR investment is roughly $8,900.

If we examine the example I gave above, we find the difference to be about $740 per month. Now granted, my past 2 months have been very active, more so than normal. So let's average out the good months and the bad months by halving the figure, which makes the savings about $370 per month. In this example, I pay off my CCR investment in 24 months.

[Sludge]

Those are some strange numbers - what kind of bailout bottles cost $562 each?

[w ripley]

. . . I'm considering getting into CCR diving. Well, not considering, I've decided. . .

If you've made your decision, then might as well start now forgetting about costs. These things are expensive and labor intensive. But if your type of diving needs one then you really can't do without it.

I would just suggest that, as others have said, you (and everyone considering going to a RB) revisit your decision. Not saying this is you, but I see a growing number of divers going to the RB just because they see everyone else (they think) going that way. Seriously, if you're not looking (and willing to pay) for extended bottom times, whether deep or not, OC will probably suit your needs and wallet far better.

But if you're looking to do all-day cave dives and/or multiple-hour ocean dives, then it's a no brainier. Still, with long dives comes a whole new set of issues that costs real money to address: hydration, exposure protection, thermal insulation, urination, longer primary & backup light burn times, BOs, etc. Then there is the issue of finding a buddy who also thinks (and is setup) like you. Or, becoming a solo diver because finding a buddy for every dive becomes so difficult.

I think you see where I'm going. A RB is not just another piece of gear, but a completely new underwater paradigm shift. As the say, be careful what you wish for.

[icestac]

Those are some strange numbers - what kind of bailout bottles cost $562 each?

He is probably figuring the tank + regs (retail of course).

[riverrat]

Believe it or not, that was the final straw that made me decide not to go CCR. I think I figured $6/hour in sorb costs vs $0/hour in nitrox...

He will spend in my guesstimation around 10K for the breather plus training plus plus whats a few bucks for sorb ..... ?

[MORGAN]

Two things have kept me away from rebreathers:

1) I am still able to do the dives I want to do on OC.

2) When I take the amount of money we'd spend on two rebreathers and training for Tracy and I, and divide it by the cost of a week of cave diving including travel from VT, I get a number that makes me think I'd rather spend the money on dive trips than a rebreather. In round numbers, two rebreathers and training would cost us the equivalent of about 15 weeks of cave diving vacations.

Mike

[Wizard]

Those are some strange numbers - what kind of bailout bottles cost $562 each?

Sounds like he practicing the speak for the wife. "Look how much money we can save Honey."
Can't wait to see what she got the 13 grand she spend.

On a more serious note, rebreathers are great, and an incredible machines designed to do amazing things.
But, there are some folks I have met at different dive sites and functions that aren't around anymore because of a rebreather.
Like a rebreather instructor told a student one day at JB, "They only just keep you alive when they work perfectly at 100%. At 99% you may die."
He had their full attention after that.