Insight to Henleys Castle

[jj1987]

Factually stated, that should read: The overwhelming majority of them. OR, it could alternatively read: An infinitesimal number did not.

If you'd amend a definition of "infinitesimal number" to be greater than 200 deaths with an END >100ft in various diving environments before year 2000, we'll agree.

[DA Aquamaster]

In all seriousness, thank you for being the first one to post something. It's a privilege to dive state owned sites, and I would hate to know that a few dollars could have prevented a death and cause a loss of site access...especially now that mix is easily available at nearly every shop in cave country.

Trimix is readily available, and the cost per fill (in N FL at least) is not huge in terms of the over all cost per dive on any given trip to N FL (for a non local zip code diver at least).

However, a trimix cert is not cheap as despite all the posts like yours citing the public and humanitarian benefit, most instuctors seem to charge an arm and a leg for a course that is just not that complex. I guess it is a "what ever the market will bear" pricing strategy for what is regarded as a graduate level technical diving course. Worse, outside of N FL if you have to get the card offshore, you add the travel and lodging expense only to get blown out on one or more of the dives on top of the gas fill expense and the $1000-$1500 fee for the course. Personally, after 3 blown out attempts to finish the dives, I hung it up and will leave it there until I see the need for trimix on the dives I do.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you in general but trimix is not cheap everywhere and there are some significant barriers to getting the training even among those divers who want the training. If you want more divers using trimix, making the cert itself more affordable would probably help.

If you'd amend a definition of "infinitesimal number" to be greater than 200 deaths with an END >100ft in various diving environments before year 2000, we'll agree.

I really hate the Trimix versus nitrox below 100' debate. But I do need to point out you are picking at nits and are overstating the case. Far less than the 200 deaths you cite with an END greater than 100' involved narcosis due to a lack of helium as a causative factor.

For example, take the average fatality in Ginnie with an END of 101-110'. Would trimix have made a difference in a particular accident here and there? Probably. But more correctly, is the abscence of helium a causative factor in all of those accidents in that depth range? Clearly not.

I don't think it makes sense to treat END as an absolute as the effects vary by day, by diver, are dependent to some extent on the environment and vary with increasing depth. In addition, the potential for negative impact of any impairment depends on the nature and demands of the dive itself.

Personally, I am fine with doing a dive to a depth of 150' in Henleys Castle, in large part based on my prior experience on air or nitrox to those depths and based on prior experience there. That said, I would not automatically recommend it to anyone else, and I certainly know divers who have issues with narcosis at far lesser depths who would personally opt to either use trimix or not do the dive.

[KarsticGator]

If you'd amend a definition of "infinitesimal number" to be greater than 200 deaths with an END >100ft in various diving environments before year 2000, we'll agree.

I question your statistics. As the poster stated above, your making an assumption that all deaths that occurred at greater than 100' in depth, could have been avoided by breathing trimix. That is completely inaccurate.

[icestac]

I question your statistics. As the poster stated above, your making an assumption that all deaths greater than 100' deep could have been avoided by breathing trimix... which is completely inaccurate.

FWIW - You don't have to have trimix to reduce your END. On a 100ft dive, most of us would just use 32% Nitrox.

Just for what it is worth, I think there is a big difference between 140-150ft on air and 180+ft on air. I've dipped down a bit in OW below 130 on air. I'll be damned if I ever hit 180 on air. I know people do it, but it is not worth it to me and for sure not in a cave.

Cheers & be safe!
Jeff

[KarsticGator]

FWIW - You don't have to have trimix to reduce your END. On a 100ft dive, most of us would just use 32% Nitrox.
Jeff

True. But I believe we are talking about depths where a 32% mix would be well above 1.4 ATA.

[Caver95]

Let me be the first to say that you are a moron.

I know back in the 70s one could pick a lady up at a bar and not use a rubber.
I know that back in the old days that air was all there was.
I know air is cheaper.

You are not a good steward of the cave community. Perhaps you should go do your dives somewhere that a fatality will not effect future access.

You sir ooze the strokery, and one cant fix stupid.
So in the words of GI3 I will give you a wide berth.

[KarsticGator]

Let me be the first to say that you are a moron.

I know back in the 70s one could pick a lady up at a bar and not use a rubber.
I know that back in the old days that air was all there was.
I know air is cheaper.

You are not a good steward of the cave community. Perhaps you should go do your dives somewhere that a fatality will not effect future access.

You sir ooze the strokery, and one cant fix stupid.
So in the words of GI3 I will give you a wide berth.

If your are going to call someone stupid, at least give them the courtesy of identifying them in your post.

[LiteHedded]

some people would jump over a dollar to save a nickel...

if you can't afford a trimix class save up for it and stay shallow until you can get the good stuff. like nick said, it's not the 70s anymore.

[Caver95]

If your are going to call someone stupid, at least give them the courtesy of identifying them in your post.

If you have to question yourself....

[DA Aquamaster]

...and one cant fix stupid.

I agree. Unfortunately, helium won't fix stupid either, but many divers, secure in the increased mental clarity and brilliance helium provides - in some cases, a presumed degree of mental clarity and brilliance they lack at the surface - go ahead and do incredibly stupid things during the dive and a fatality still results.

Helium is just a tool in the tool box. It is not a panacea for all the potential risks a diver may encounter nor is it a license to exceed one's own limits or act imprudently. In the same vein, helium is also not required to remain within ones own limits or act prudently.