Ginnie Rules

[Diver Bob]

I am starting this as a thought from the camping thread. Let me start with stating that I am not trying to make waves (bad pun intended). How is it that private places such as Ginnie can make and enforce rules involving what goes on in the cave and waterways adjacent to their property? I am glad they discourage OW divers from going into the caves, etc. but am confused how they have "authority" to enforce their rules on people in the public waterways? I suppose to some point it is that if we want to use their parking spaces, facilities and steps into the water, we have to do what they ask. But how can they actually stop one from scootering unless you have a certification say? Once again I am not trying to start trouble, but just not clear on how their jurisdiction extends past the edge of the water. I am glad that they have many of the rules they do, just not clear on their enforceablity if challenged.

[Gary]

Legally I believe it is very simple:

If you enter the cave from the water by boat they have no juristiction. Stay off the land and the stairs do as you please.

However, if you violate the conditions you entered the park under then you are tresspassing and are subject to explusion. Further you should have signed a waiver and agreement to abide by the rules when entering the park - else you are also tresspassing.


Other places owned by the state have been more forceful then that. The legality of what they sometimes do and restrict is much less obvious and has sometimes even been challenged and overruled by the courts only to be enforced anyway.

[Capt Tom McMillan]

Ginnie Springs cannot tell you what to do in the cave system. They can, however, restrict your access to the water from their property if you do not abide by their rules. After all it is their property and you have agreed to their rules when you sign in. There have been people that do not agree with their rules and have accessed the system from a boat. I suppose if you wished you could do the same. If you do not agree with their rules there are other places to dive that have no rules, Telford for example. Telford: no hot showers, no grounds person to ensure that your vehicle is not broken into, no picnic tables to gear up on, no nice steps to enter the system, plenty of broken beer bottles on the ground to cut your booties on...

[Dwain]

Well said Capt.

Please... those who do visit telford, spend a few minutes while you are there to pick up trash and place it in the dumpster. If the dumpster is full take it with you. Leave it cleaner then you found it.

Thank you,

Dwain

[DeWayne]

While I disagree with most of their rules I can see why they are in place. My take on it is that it probably has to do with limiting their liability. They are required to be insured in order to operate as a commercial venture and I am sure that all the rules help in keeping those costs to a minimum. They don't own the water or the cave but they do own the land that offers access. Enter by boat and they have no authority over what you do, nor do they incur any liabilty should something happen to you. As mentioned the trade off there is no showers, tables, and the like to make things a bit more convenient. A simpler alternative is to go elsewhere; I prefer Little River myself but even there you still face some limitations when using the park for access.

[ARY]

...I prefer Little River myself but even there you still face some limitations when using the park for access.

What are those limitations? IMHO due to no limits there i bet the next diving accident is more probable happening in that location. Personally i like LR democratic atmosphere though.

[Genesis]

I don't think I can post my actual opinion here due to Rule #6

However, I can (and will) in other places, if asked...

[Capt Tom McMillan]

Post it on your board under politics. I would be interested in reading it.

[Genesis]

OK

There's a general treatise in that forum already on "Rethinking access"; I'll put something specific up.

[DeWayne]

...I prefer Little River myself but even there you still face some limitations when using the park for access.

What are those limitations? IMHO due to no limits there i bet the next diving accident is more probable happening in that location. Personally i like LR democratic atmosphere though.

Limited to diving only during the day when the park is open. Again, you can go there at night via a boat.