Does a full cave diver need Advanced Wreck?

[SUB ZERO]

Some people say penetration diving is penetration diving and Cave Dive courses prepare you more extensively for overhead. John Chatterton is known to advocate that a Cave Diver is not a wreck diver. I wanted to know from those who have taken Full Cave and those who have taken Advanced Wreck. Would Advanced Wreck course have anything of value to offer after you are full cave?

[jason]

Some people say penetration diving is penetration diving and Cave Dive courses prepare you more extensively for overhead. John Chatterton is known to advocate that a Cave Diver is not a wreck diver. I wanted to know from those who have taken Full Cave and those who have taken Advanced Wreck. Would Advanced Wreck course have anything of value to offer after you are full cave?

I've not taken the advanced wreck class - but.... when I first started diving in the big ocean I quickly learned that deco classes in Florida caves did zilch to prepare me for drift deco in ripping current. I've also ran into a lot of hazards inside wrecks actual wrecks (to be distinguished from artificial reefs that were prepared for divers) that I probably would have better identified if I'd had a class. In short, I've learned a lot of stuff the hard way, lived through it, and still want to take an advanced wreck class. Wrecks and caves are different environments with very different hazards.

[kensuf]

Loaded question.

Drift deco: Jason's absolutely right about deco diving in current. No amount of laying on a log will adequately prepare someone for conducting deco in a current without any visual references. Unfortunately, many of the fun wrecks in So Florida are going to involve drift deco (and probably hot drops too). Staring at a 30+ minute decompression obligation isn't the time to discover your skills for that are not up to snuff. My recommendation is start with some no decompression drift diving, Jupiter / West Palm is great for that, to practice shooting bags, holding stops, and gas switching before moving on to dives involving staged decompression while drifting.

Wreck penetration: Yeah, as a full cave diver you'll probably be OK, but there are some notable differences. Structures can be unstable, monofilament fishing line can be "amusing," dangling wire can be impossible to cut with a trilobyte and sharp objects can puncture a wing/loop hose. Some people can also get disoriented looking at doorways/stairs if a ship is on it's side, fire coral / fire worms (seriously) are loads of fun too. Additionally, the penetration distances are significantly shorter - the largest artificial reef in the world is the USS Oriskany and it is only 900' long - how far do you think you're going in there? There are also some structural things about wrecks themselves that make navigation significantly different from cave diving - for instance, there are frequently multiple places to enter/exit a wreck, but they're only found above the waterline - what deck are you on again?

FWIW - I took Advanced Wreck this past summer from John's business partner, Alec Hutchinson, and learned some things. Did I need to take the class to be safe inside a wreck? Probably not, but I did learn some things about wreck diving that I wouldn't have thought of before (and I had a blast in the class). Was it worth it? To me, yes.

Oh final thought, wreck diving's a summer sport because running around in a drysuit in North Florida in July is miserable. Cave diving's a winter sport. It's now cave season.

[Draker]

Oh final thought, wreck diving's a summer sport because running around in a drysuit in North Florida in July is miserable. Cave diving's a winter sport. It's now cave season.

It?s always cave season somewhere.

And why are you running anywhere in your drysuit?


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[jason]

Draker's point about enjoying the class and learning something are probably the biggest reasons I find classes useful. Do I really need a class, probably not. But a class with a good instructor is a great opportunity to ask a lot of questions, and learn new stuff and techniques - even if the certification isn't something that is "needed." Its the difference between certification and education.

FWIW, I try to take at least one class a year, often in subjects for which I already have certifications or experience, though I don't always manage to fit it in.

[twaldo]

FWIW - I took Advanced Wreck this past summer from John's business partner, Alec Hutchinson, and learned some things. Did I need to take the class to be safe inside a wreck? Probably not, but I did learn some things about wreck diving that I wouldn't have thought of before (and I had a blast in the class). Was it worth it? To me, yes.

ALWAYS refreshing to hear an instructor of your repute talking about taking a class.... Yes as with many things in life, diving should be always learning never stops.

[rddvet]

Never had a 300 lb grouper mad at me cause I was in its territory in a cave.


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[diveconjeff]

Never had a 300 lb grouper mad at me cause I was in its territory in a cave.


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Actually, not all that uncommon to find one off to the side when swimming through ?Hole in the Wall? diving off Jupiter. My personal advice is to not block the exit?


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[kensuf]

And why are you running anywhere in your drysuit?

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean I'm not being chased...

[kensuf]

Never had a 300 lb grouper mad at me cause I was in its territory in a cave.


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I've had to fight off tarpon and turtles to get into Giant Cave in Belize.