Manatee Springs Hydrology

[Serota]

I'm looking at a not very good map of the cave system at Manatee Springs and it appears that the flow comes through the cave system, passes through Friedman Sink, Sue's Spring, Catfish Hotel and then exits the main spring to the river.

My question is this: I was there open water diving with a class last weekend and observed a very strong flow exiting the cave into the main spring, but observed essentially no flow in Catfish Hotel, so my naive question is "what path does the water follow"?

Secondly, I haven't heard much on CDF or elsewhere about diving the Manatee System. Is there a particular reason for that? Is Catfish Hotel the best place to enter the system?

Thanks for the info..

[Cave Ranger]

I'm not an expert and this might be refuted but Catfish Hotel is a "Sink" that is offset from the actual Cave. In Catfish Hotel you are essentially out of the main flow until you get into the Cave.
The water follows the path of least resistance.....which is through the Cave to the river. Catfish Hotel is just overflow from the Cave.
I for one think the Manatee Spring system is great. The flow is usually screaming though and not much bottom material suitable for the old Pull and Glide. The "Roothog or Die" technique helps but it's best done with a scooter. Maybe that's why it isn't talked about much or maybe it is and you just didn't see it.

[Jay]

I'm looking at a not very good map of the cave system at Manatee Springs and it appears that the flow comes through the cave system, passes through Friedman Sink, Sue's Spring, Catfish Hotel and then exits the main spring to the river.

My question is this: I was there open water diving with a class last weekend and observed a very strong flow exiting the cave into the main spring, but observed essentially no flow in Catfish Hotel, so my naive question is "what path does the water follow"?

Secondly, I haven't heard much on CDF or elsewhere about diving the Manatee System. Is there a particular reason for that? Is Catfish Hotel the best place to enter the system?

Thanks for the info..

Ranger is correct about the offset.

The best entry depends on what you are doing. Sue is off limits. Friedmans is a very interesting entry. It's located in a puddle and is a snug vertical shaft that plops you into a very nice large section of the cave.
Folks familiar with the cave can enter Friedmans and just drift down to catfish/headspring, or it is a great starting point to go far upstream.

[CaptainSpeleo]

Serota:

You won't notice any flow in Catfish Sink until you descend several feet. If you're not on the upstream side of it and you get too far down, you can easily be pulled downstream towards the main spring, so be careful.

Swimming upstream towards Sue Sink and Friedman Sink is a real challenge and will definitely test your stamina. Even having a scooter can give you a good workout.

I remember a single stage dive we made upstream from Friedman Sink for about 3000'. Even with scooters, we had to stop and rest every few minutes. We were flying on the way back.

The only time that the outflow can be handled easily is when the river is in flood.

[Serota]

Thanks for the clarifications regarding where the water flows at Manatee. I'm not at a level with my cave diving yet to attempt a dive there - just wanted to understand for future reference. I would never want to dive such a system without without someone who had successful experiences diving the system.

[CaptainSpeleo]

Besides the outflow being so strong, the floor is mostly sand and has no handholds for pulling and gliding. The walls are also very dark and absorb a lot of the light being shined. Build up your experience and confident slowly in the easier and safer cave systems. I took 2 years(1987 - 1989) between getting Intro Cave and Full Cave certified.

[Serota]

Besides the outflow being so strong, the floor is mostly sand and has no handholds for pulling and gliding. The walls are also very dark and absorb a lot of the light being shined. Build up your experience and confident slowly in the easier and safer cave systems. I took 2 years(1987 - 1989) between getting Intro Cave and Full Cave certified.

Yep, thats about the pace I'm on to full cave - I made a rule for myself of at least 20 successful dives between each level of training. By successful, I mean dives where things either went smoothly or difficulties were dealt with properly.

The map shows that Exley et al. reached close to 8000' feet in Manatee in the 1970s - did they have scooters then or was some other magic involved?

Secondly, I haven't heard much on CDF or elsewhere about diving the Manatee System. Is there a particular reason for that? Is Catfish Hotel the best place to enter the system?

Thanks for the info..

Catfish Hotel is one of the best places to enter Manatee. It's a good walk from the parking lot. We used dollies to bring the DPVs.

CDF had a lot of dialog about Manatee some time back. One thread was about a change in the park rules (limiting the number of dive teams). Another thread was about the preservation of Manatee Springs (from a mine).

Last I heard, you can't scooter in Manatee Springs without a special permit (please correct me if I'm wrong). All the Florida State parks have a no scootering rule. I was trying to demo a DR Arrow, at Troy Springs, when I was told this by a Park Ranger (was the Park Ranger wrong?). I miss scootering at Manatee. It was a fun ride.

Also, to enter at Freidman’s, you have to enter with someone who's already been in Friedman’s.

Some past CDF threads on Manatee Springs (including some map links) for your reading pleasure:
http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopi...hlight=manatee
http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopi...hlight=manatee
http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopi...hlight=manatee
http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopi...hlight=manatee
http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopi...hlight=manatee
http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopi...hlight=manatee
http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopi...hlight=manatee
http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopi...hlight=manatee

[CaptainSpeleo]

Unless you have the stamina and ability to walk about 200 yards through the woods with 100+ pounds of gear on your back, bring a cart to load the gear in so you can pull it behind you to the far side of Freidman Sink.

Scooters were allowed there when I last dived it 3 - 4 years ago. They're definitely needed for going upstream for any distance.

After you finish the dive, inspect yourself carefully for deer ticks. I never made a dive there without becoming a host to a few of them. I missed one on my crotch and discovered it almost a week later after it had swelled up.

[Serota]

I saw several cave divers entering the cave system at Catfish Hotel on Sunday - if any of you read this forum - how was the dive?