I could use some pictures with permissions

[JohnAd]

I recently had a course approved by PADI called Understanding Overhead Environments, and I am working on the actual instructional materials. To put it simply, the primary purpose is to explain to recreational divers the differences in the levels of danger of various overhead environments, so that the experienced and cocky veteran of Cozumel swim throughs comes to understand that those skills that are fine there don't work so well in more challenging environments. Ultimately, the goal is to prevent OW divers from entering environments beyond their training and equipment. I want to include photos that show the differences.

Right now I am working on a section showing that all caverns are not alike. It was inspired by the 2012 incident in which a family of OW divers enjoyed a visit to the Jackson Blue cavern and then had an unpleasant experience at Twin, with a fatality narrowly avoided. It would be great if I could get a photo that shows a wide open, well lighted cavern with a rocky bottom--like Jackson Blue--and contrast it with the kind of conditions you find at Twin.

If you have any photos that can show such a contrast that I can use with your permission, I would appreciate it. All due credit will of course be stated.

[Red Hat Jef]

I'm concerned we are educating open water divers on which caves they can break the rules in and which they can't. Aren't you?

[JohnAd]

I'm concerned we are educating open water divers on which caves they can break the rules in and which they can't. Aren't you?

Not at all. There will be nearly no naming of sites. The idea is to show them that just because they can swim through coral swim throughs in Cozumel or lavatubes in Hawai'i does not mean all overheads are OK. Believe me, I went through this issue in detail with PADI before they approved the course.

[JohnAd]

A little more information.

PADI rejected the entire concept of the course at first because of similar concerns. The PADI representative with whom I was discussing it is an active cave diver. They discussed it at length at the headquarters and finally gave me the go ahead. This project was not done lightly.

[gschaut]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with John.

"Just Say No" was an incredibly bad failure for drug prevention and teen pregnancy. Don't think it will be much more successful as a teaching strategy for OW students.

Teaching tools done right (An Easy Way To Die) seem to be the best course of action, in my opinion.

[Red Hat Jef]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with John.

"Just Say No" was an incredibly bad failure for drug prevention and teen pregnancy. Don't think it will be much more successful as a teaching strategy for OW students.

Teaching tools done right (An Easy Way To Die) seem to be the best course of action, in my opinion.

I think you have two points here.

If PADI decided to mandate the watching of the Easy way to Die video in all OW classes as a requirement to graduate, then I'd be thrilled.

The approach described sounds different to me. Using a different analogy, why not show the results of people drinking and driving in both daylight sunny and nighttime rainy conditions, so drivers know which one is less ok? I mean, some states allow for more alcohol than others so I hear it's ok for me to do right? Pushing the analogy further, aren't these folks the equivalent of 15 year olds with learners permits we are trying to teach this to, so they can fall back on their vast knowledge base and experience to avoid trouble and make good decisions?

This feels like a very confusing message to try and send, and I'm not sure all of the messengers (ow instructors only some with overhead experience) will be able to articulate it correctly. I'm not sure I understand why we don't stick to the easy way to die video.

[JohnAd]

I think you have two points here.

If PADI decided to mandate the watching of the Easy way to Die video in all OW classes as a requirement to graduate, then I'd be thrilled.

The approach described sounds different to me. Using a different analogy, why not show the results of people drinking and driving in both daylight sunny and nighttime rainy conditions, so drivers know which one is less ok? I mean, some states allow for more alcohol than others so I hear it's ok for me to do right? Pushing the analogy further, aren't these folks the equivalent of 15 year olds with learners permits we are trying to teach this to, so they can fall back on their vast knowledge base and experience to avoid trouble and make good decisions?

This feels like a very confusing message to try and send, and I'm not sure all of the messengers (ow instructors only some with overhead experience) will be able to articulate it correctly. I'm not sure I understand why we don't stick to the easy way to die video.

I was not aware that PADI or any recreational dive agency had a course that focused on the dangers of overhead environment and used the Easy Way to Die video as the focus. Could you identify those courses, please?

I am also not clear on the message you want to send. Are you saying that we should tell all OW divers that they should never enter any overhead environment, because doing so risks a near certain agonizing death? Don't you think that message will confuse them when they go to places like Cozumel and routinely go through short swim throughs, or go to south Florida and enter the artificial reef wrecks like the Ancient Mariner that are dived nearly every day there? It seems to me that will be kind of like when I was a teen and our student body was taken to the school auditorium to watch the movie Reefer Madness, which warned us of the horrors (including death) that awaited us if we even tried that most evil of all drugs, marijuana. Once we realized what a joke that was, we paid little attention to any of the other dire warnings we were given about other evil drugs. If they lied to us about one of them--how could we trust them on the others?

[Akroedge540]

I was not aware that PADI or any recreational dive agency had a course that focused on the dangers of overhead environment and used the Easy Way to Die video as the focus. Could you identify those courses, please?

I am also not clear on the message you want to send. Are you saying that we should tell all OW divers that they should never enter any overhead environment, because doing so risks a near certain agonizing death? Don't you think that message will confuse them when they go to places like Cozumel and routinely go through short swim throughs, or go to south Florida and enter the artificial reef wrecks like the Ancient Mariner that are dived nearly every day there? It seems to me that will be kind of like when I was a teen and our student body was taken to the school auditorium to watch the movie Reefer Madness, which warned us of the horrors (including death) that awaited us if we even tried that most evil of all drugs, marijuana. Once we realized what a joke that was, we paid little attention to any of the other dire warnings we were given about other evil drugs. If they lied to us about one of them--how could we trust them on the others?

My padi OW training wasn't really focused on anything to do with overhead environments. It was one sentence "don't go into a cave it will kill you." My knowledge of the overhead environment and it's dangers came from a few excellent mentors,shop owners, and my overhead instructor. All of their positions were the same, overhead is overhead. A swim through, a wreck, lava tubes, decompression etc. are just as dangerous as a cave. All of the above require special training and equipment to dive safely. They are also unique environments and should be approached with caution, the right equipment and training. I believe that is the point that the technical diving/ overhead diving community wants to get across. 5 feet or 5000 feet of penetration is equally deadly.

All accidents start with one link, then another and then another. It forms an accident chain that leads to injury or death. Unfortunately sometimes the first link in that chain is inadequate education during open water training.


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[MORGAN]

A bit more education on the dangers of the overhead for OW divers can't hurt. Many basic OW courses ("Learn SCUBA in a Weekend! $99.00!") are so abbreviated that it doesn't get addressed beyond, "Overhead is dangerous. Stay out of it."

Then when the newly certified diver gets out in the real world, there are plentiful opportunities to dive in overhead as an OW diver. Coral swim-throughs, "safe" shipwrecks, Ginnie ballroom, Blue Grotto, Devil's Den, Paradise, etc. etc. You can't blame them for being confused when they're told one thing in class and something else when they go to some of these places. I can see John's course being useful for helping alleviate the confusion.

In my own case, my OW instructor was a cave diver, and we did our OW dives in a quarry that has a big area of overhead, so he was very emphatic about staying out of there and all other overheads as well. If "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" had been available then, he would have shown it. Also, Tracy and I had just read "The Last Dive", which was full of deaths and near misses, before our first OW class in January 2001. And we were dry cavers, and knew that all cave divers were suicidally insane. So as far as we were concerned, diving into any overhead without the proper training would be instantly fatal!

Mike

[Sludge]

If "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" had been available then, he would have shown it.

I believe that was made in the mid-1990s.


Edit: It was made in 1997.