NACD Conference... Call for Action

[Doppler]

I will be making a presentation at the 41st conference later this month. When Debra asked what I would like to discuss with the group, I mumbled something about the application of cave diving techniques in a wreck diving milieu. Seemed a loose enough topic to give me a little leeway but tight enough for me to stand on my usual "safety through training" soapbox.

Well, a few recent incidents, one in my favorite cave in particular, have helped me refine what it is I would like to share with delegates. Specifically that although the techniques are similar, there as some major differences that need to be considered because cave diving is not wreck diving. Perhaps more importantly, training for a wreck dive in a cave or training for a cave dive in a wreck, is idiocy.

ANYHOW, I want to ask you folks the question: what questions would you like to see addressed in my presentation given all that's been going on lately?

[sandy]

This may already be covered with your comment but I would be curious about:
1. Major differences in the wreck environment that a cave diver may not consider or give enough consideration (example - sharp edges/rust/false or too small exits)
2. Equipment differences that a cave diver may not consider(examples - use of 24, 36, or 48 line; type of knives/cutting devices)
3. Assumptions that a cave diver may have than are not applicable or even dangerous in a wreck (and vice versa)
4. Other issues that a cave diver may not consider.
5. Training differences or what to expect in wreck training.

[caverkevin]

Personally, I'd address what cave diving has contributed to wreck diving. Maybe go as far as to what else could cave diving do to help improve wreck diving. I'm guessing most everyone in the room at the NACD conference would be cave trained at some level. Would agree caves are no where similar an environment to wrecks.

What would be really good is talking about the value of cave training and cave diving technique at wreck diving type shows like Bay Area Divers, Sea Horses, Ghost Ships..... Get the point across that those refined techniques can not be learned or understood training in a wreck environment. As there are still many wreck divers out there that do not understand the logic and reasoning for some cave diving procedures. They may never be exposed to set of circumstances that would lead them to the same conclusions.

Cheers!!

Kevin

PS You could always talk about that rebreather of your that I'm interested in....

I will be making a presentation at the 41st conference later this month. When Debra asked what I would like to discuss with the group, I mumbled something about the application of cave diving techniques in a wreck diving milieu. Seemed a loose enough topic to give me a little leeway but tight enough for me to stand on my usual "safety through training" soapbox.

Well, a few recent incidents, one in my favorite cave in particular, have helped me refine what it is I would like to share with delegates. Specifically that although the techniques are similar, there as some major differences that need to be considered because cave diving is not wreck diving. Perhaps more importantly, training for a wreck dive in a cave or training for a cave dive in a wreck, is idiocy.

ANYHOW, I want to ask you folks the question: what questions would you like to see addressed in my presentation given all that's been going on lately?

[aainslie]

Steve,

You're a stand-up guy. Thanks for tackling this head-on.

Are you willing to speak for TDI? What is that agency's attitude to using EN for trimix and rebreather training? And of course, what is your personal attitude?

Regards,

Andrew

[Randy Thornton]

Steve,

You're a stand-up guy. Thanks for tackling this head-on.

Are you willing to speak for TDI? What is that agency's attitude to using EN for trimix and rebreather training? And of course, what is your personal attitude?

Regards,

Andrew

Andrew,

Is your beef with using EN for Trimix training because you suspect that "non-cave trained divers" that do an open water Timix course there will be tempted to come back and dive the cave after the class?

Just curious what your thinking is.

Kind regards,
Randy

[aainslie]

Andrew,

Is your beef with using EN for Trimix training because you suspect that "non-cave trained divers" that do an open water Timix course there will be tempted to come back and dive the cave after the class?

Just curious what your thinking is.

Kind regards,
Randy

My beef is that once you go through the solution tube, you are in a cavern. And once you get to 200 ft depth, you're in a cave. And these instructors going in there are often a) not qualified to instruct in these circumstances, and b) not instructing those students in cave procedures.

And yes - the BIGGEST problem is that the participants walk away thinking that it's fine to do a 200 ft dive in Eagle's without cave training. After all, that's EXACTLY what they did with their instructor.

[FW]

My beef is that once you go through the solution tube, you are in a cavern. And once you get to 200 ft depth, you're in a cave. And these instructors going in there are often a) not qualified to instruct in these circumstances, and b) not instructing those students in cave procedures.

And yes - the BIGGEST problem is that the participants walk away thinking that it's fine to do a 200 ft dive in Eagle's without cave training. After all, that's EXACTLY what they did with their instructor.

[Jim Wyatt]

My beef is that once you go through the solution tube, you are in a cavern. And once you get to 200 ft depth, you're in a cave. And these instructors going in there are often a) not qualified to instruct in these circumstances, and b) not instructing those students in cave procedures.

And yes - the BIGGEST problem is that the participants walk away thinking that it's fine to do a 200 ft dive in Eagle's without cave training. After all, that's EXACTLY what they did with their instructor.

Roger that.

[crawford]

My beef is that once you go through the solution tube, you are in a cavern. And once you get to 200 ft depth, you're in a cave. And these instructors going in there are often a) not qualified to instruct in these circumstances, and b) not instructing those students in cave procedures.

And yes - the BIGGEST problem is that the participants walk away thinking that it's fine to do a 200 ft dive in Eagle's without cave training. After all, that's EXACTLY what they did with their instructor.

I agree completely with Andrew.

Did I really just say that?

[caverkevin]

I agree too!! How about all the AOW students that think doing a 130' dive is fine as well.