Water Temp in Caves

[metaldector]

I've been diving a couple of springs a lot lately but not getting up to cave country since the flooding. In reviewing the water temperatures from my past dives in these two systems I've noticed that the water temperature has increase by 2.1 degrees. What used to be 72 degrees year after year is now 74.1 degrees. At first I thought it an anomaly but after 6 dives in both places and getting the same temperature each time I know it is real.

What has caused the temperature to rise in these systems? My guess is it is due to the recent rains. In the past few years with minimal rain the water pumping was 'old water'. Water that percolated years underground before surfacing. The water that is now pumping is a mixture of recent rains and old water so the temperature has gone up from the influx of 'new' rain water.

The question is two fold: 1). Have you noticed an increase temperature in the systems you dive most often, and 2). Does my theory hold any 'water'?

Comments please.

[Sludge]

The first thing that comes to mind is what are you using to measure temperature? As wonderful as dive computers are, their thermometers are notoriously pathetic.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

These aren't tidally influenced systems with saltwater intrusion are they? Have you identified consistent temps throughout or possibly multiple water sources?

Springs up here are staying consistant, cept for the stuff that normally varies.

[FW]

I heard people saying the temps in the Luraville and Madison areas seemed lower that pre-flood.

[metaldector]

No these are just Ocala spring water sites. Could it be that my Duo is out of wack. I'll have to check it against someone else's at the same site.

[chimie007]

wingman (Bill Huth) would probably have some good data to this. He has put some sensors in some caves to help a grad student (forgot his name).... I know they had some at Ginnie during the "big" flood.

I just PM him about this thread.

[wingman]

wingman (Bill Huth) would probably have some good data to this. He has put some sensors in some caves to help a grad student (forgot his name).... I know they had some at Ginnie during the "big" flood.

I just PM him about this thread.

Will check the temp data i have for ginnie during a flood event at work tomorrow. The grad student was jason gulley at UF, he has been off to greenland and places working on glaciers. Bill

[wingman]

Just looked at some data i have. For ginnie during tropical storm fay last year or whenever the hell it was, i have some data from the whiteroom (about 2K observations every 15m). There are significant changes in pH, conductivity, and dissolved oxygen as the river intruded into the white room. The normal temperature is 22.41c. During the white room event there was a temperature increase but only .02 degrees c. Not enough volume I would guess to make a big difference in the average annual air temperature or something like that but there is obvious fluctuation in the temperature data as the river intruded.

Some data on the same dive profile at indian springs yielded temperature that was about a whole degree different from one dive in may to the next in january.

I currently have two sondes in ginnie that will have a ton of temperature data over a period of a month or more. Most likely it will be a pretty contant 22.41c.

[jason]

Since I am in between glacier trips presently....

During this last flood when Peacock reversed the water temperature dropped 4 degrees C as river water basically replaced all the groundwater in the spring. The temperature gradually increased following the flood. River water was entering the system on 4/4/09 and as of 5/13/09, the water was still 1 degree C lower than normal values. This reflects both the amount of time it takes to warm the intruded river water and mixing with groundwater in the aquifer.

"Old" water from very deep flowpaths can be quite warm (Warm Mineral Springs). But in most places, there just isn't any way to get that water to the surface. As a side note, there is a deep, warm water component at the River Rise...

FYI - it takes A LOT of water to result in significant temperature changes.

[Jerry]

Jason,

Are you sure it is a deep water source and not summer flood water trapped in ceiling domes? In exploring the Old Bellamy System (which includes River Rise) I have seen the cave water stratified into three layers.

Top----reddish-black tannic, mid 74 to 76 degrees F
Middle---clearer/greenish "groundwater" at 71-72 degrees F
Bottom---reddish-black tannic, 60 to 63 degrees F

I haven't done any true or detailed research on the phenomena but have interpreted it as temperature/density stratification trapping winter/summer flood waters in the highly irregular floor and ceiling.

Thoughts,

Jerry