abandonment of person

[mmammana]

Hi all,
I was talking to a friend, who is a climber, and we discussed different practice guidelines facing an accident in the mountain. He said that obviously, if a climber has some difficult to go on, the other must remain with him until a rescue is possible. What's the accepted behavior in a cave if, for example, you loose contact with your buddy or team? I've read somewhere, that the diver must search for about 5 minutes, and after this time, if he fails to find his buddy, it's ok to leave the cave. I understand that this practice considers that the other diver will follow the same procedure, and eventually both of them will be safe. But what if the other cannot get out for whatever reason? He said that this would be punished as abandonment of person, although this would probably result in two casualties. I said that both situations are different, because in the mountain you have plenty of air (probably the critical point in a cave). He said that there are situations in a climbing that will certainly pose a life risk too, but insists in that the buddy must remain with the victim. Please advice.

[Serota]

See the "desert your buddy pressure survey" thread a few posts below yours in the Main Forum.

[DeWayne]

Hi all,
I was talking to a friend, who is a climber, and we discussed different practice guidelines facing an accident in the mountain. He said that obviously, if a climber has some difficult to go on, the other must remain with him until a rescue is possible. What's the accepted behavior in a cave if, for example, you loose contact with your buddy or team? I've read somewhere, that the diver must search for about 5 minutes, and after this time, if he fails to find his buddy, it's ok to leave the cave. I understand that this practice considers that the other diver will follow the same procedure, and eventually both of them will be safe. But what if the other cannot get out for whatever reason? He said that this would be punished as abandonment of person, although this would probably result in two casualties. I said that both situations are different, because in the mountain you have plenty of air (probably the critical point in a cave). He said that there are situations in a climbing that will certainly pose a life risk too, but insists in that the buddy must remain with the victim. Please advice.

It all depends on the climb; many climbers have been left behind at higher altitudes where sticking around would just create a second casualty. How long you stay in an area with a distressed buddy is entirely dependent upon the circumstances. You never place your own life in imminent danger, regardless of whether you are on a mountain or deep into some submerged cave. In the cave we have to worry about our breathing gas supplies, available light, thermal protection, etc. These same factors can come into play on the moutain as well. (Former climber by the way, and I preferred going solo there as well 8) )

[decobottle]

I do not condone solo diving. You will find that 99% of cave divers will desert you in a heartbeat. These are the ones that think solo diving is okay. That same percentage of divers think of themselves first then there family, etc., and you will find out that you come last in there train of thought. The fact is you should think of your buddy first and when the situation turns for the worst you should be thinking that you need to get your buddy out to see his family and not be thinking of yourself. This philosophy I'm talking about (think of your buddy first) will seem to hold you back, but really when you find the right buddy (1% are out there) you will be much safer then with any of the 99% that you run into on a daily basis.

Rick

Hi all,
I was talking to a friend, who is a climber, and we discussed different practice guidelines facing an accident in the mountain. He said that obviously, if a climber has some difficult to go on, the other must remain with him until a rescue is possible. What's the accepted behavior in a cave if, for example, you loose contact with your buddy or team? I've read somewhere, that the diver must search for about 5 minutes, and after this time, if he fails to find his buddy, it's ok to leave the cave. I understand that this practice considers that the other diver will follow the same procedure, and eventually both of them will be safe. But what if the other cannot get out for whatever reason? He said that this would be punished as abandonment of person, although this would probably result in two casualties. I said that both situations are different, because in the mountain you have plenty of air (probably the critical point in a cave). He said that there are situations in a climbing that will certainly pose a life risk too, but insists in that the buddy must remain with the victim. Please advice.

[DeWayne]

I do not condone solo diving. You will find that 99% of cave divers will desert you in a heartbeat. These are the ones that think solo diving is okay. That same percentage of divers think of themselves first then there family, etc., and you will find out that you come last in there train of thought. The fact is you should think of your buddy first and when the situation turns for the worst you should be thinking that you need to get your buddy out to see his family and not be thinking of yourself. This philosophy I'm talking about (think of your buddy first) will seem to hold you back, but really when you find the right buddy (1% are out there) you will be much safer then with any of the 99% that you run into on a daily basis.

Rick

I think your figure of 99% is just a tad off While I cannot speak for others, my preference for going solo most of the time is based upon my already proving to myself that I have tendancies to stick around a bit longer than I should in some situations. I have dove with many buddies and have only met a handful that I would not want to be in the water with. Always keep in mind that the first rule of rescue is not to make yourself a victim

[amphipod06]

How would you like to be the one who gets left?
Just food for thought, not a troll.

Dive safe (and choose your buddy very carefully),

Celia

[trident1977]

TEAM Diving. That to me means "No one gets left behind". I think someone once said "Plan your dive and dive your plan" and always have a contigency plan for the "OH S**T" factor! Thanks for letting me share.

[JimC]

No one gets left behind is all well and good until you turn the event into a double fatality needlessly. Work you're ass off to save you're buddy, but when its time to go, go.

[Tegg]

How would you like to be the one who gets left?
Just food for thought, not a troll.

If my buddy left, I would assume that he/she had to in order to save themselves.

It's part of the risk of this activity we have chosen.

[mmammana]

Hi again,
Thanks to all who have posted. You've been very helpful. I've also visited the above mentioned thread. As far as I understand, nobody can be forced to die, even in such terrible circumstances. I guess there is no written law or rule, but approved behavior agreed by the team members, or dictated by past experiences.
Thanks again for your time and help,
Marcelo