Scooter purchase questions

[aw]

PM me so there aren't any rule problems. But I need to give you some info so you can answer the questions I am looking for. I am looking at the SS UV-18 or UV-26.

Yes, I'm looking at self-teaching as I did with stage, drysuit, garage gas mixing, and sidemount. But I want to make the best equipment purchase so I don't "outgrow" a smaller one like I did with dive computers (air to nitrox and then to trimix).

1) Which is better? Lead acid or nickel metal?

2) Given your experience, is it better to go ahead and get a longer burning scooter 90-150 min versus 50-90 min?

3) Are there any "additionals" I need to consider purchasing to have everything I need to make full use of the scooter?

[FW]

As far as Forum rules, you can discuss a product, just not the company that makes the product.

As for self teaching, it isn't as efficient as taking a class. Just do a lot of reading first. Like read the accident reports of self taught scooter users. Mostly be aware that you can't use the same air rules. The classes also show you several emergency proceedures, like towing your buddy out.

As for battery type, and burn time. It depends on what you want to do. Lead acid, short body scooters are fine for most cavediving. They will get you to the end of the line in most caves. If you want to get to the end of the line in a multi mile cave, you will need long body, and NiMH. You will also need a few other things, like a backup plan in case the scooter, or your gas supply fails.

Remember the snowmobile rule. "You can go farther in half an hour, than you can walk out in a day." The same is true for a scooter. If it quits running, you may now be able to swim out with the gas you have with you.

[aw]

Thanks FW.

Yeah, I'm familiar with protocol for towing a diver when scooter fails. Heck, I was the towed diver into a system once as PART of the dive plan. No, not more than I could have swam out on 1/3 of doubles, based on past swim dives there. I'm also familiar with protocol for out of gas diver & two working scooters (and even for only one working scooter and an out of gas diver). Familiar with using stages and reserving backgas. Still some more reading to do though.

So I've got to really think about the battery issue. I'm not buying one very soon, I'm sure. Just wanting to get some info so I can look in the right direction.

[aainslie]

PM me so there aren't any rule problems. But I need to give you some info so you can answer the questions I am looking for. I am looking at the SS UV-18 or UV-26.

Yes, I'm looking at self-teaching as I did with stage, drysuit, and sidemount. But I want to make the best equipment purchase so I don't "outgrow" a smaller one like I did with dive computers (air to nitrox and then to trimix).

1) Which is better? Lead acid or nickel metal?

2) Given your experience, is it better to go ahead and get a longer burning scooter 90-150 min versus 50-90 min?

3) Are there any "additionals" I need to consider purchasing to have everything I need to make full use of the scooter?

I've been through this,and am now the proud owner of a UV 18, a UV 26 body and with an N 19 due to arrive any day.

You know, Rodney gives pretty good advice on this stuff. So much of this will be a repeat:

1) Depends. For caves, lead acid has more reliable burn times and a slower voltage dropoff so you have some warning of impending doom.

2) Having both is very nice! For example in Ginnie the 26 is great, in Litte River the 18 is better. If I had to get one I'd get an 18 if I were a local and only doing one or two dives a day, or the 26 if a crazy out of towner trying to squeeze 4 dives in per day.

3) Training. A burn tester is nice, as is the watt meter Rodney sells. Also get the Interacter charger - it's worth the extra dosh.

[Kelly Jessop]

Alan what are your dive plans,that can address the scooter you need?

The 26 is like having that stage,you can't have too much air. I have a 26 tube and it collects dust because it is so heavy,and unnecessary for most of the dives I do. I usually use the 18 since it is easier to transport,and covers most of my dive plans,and actually if I have to push a single scooter back the distance a 26 will take me,I want a redundant scooter. I would look at the history of nickel metal packs because it is felt that there are more failure points,and I am going to let time answer that question before I committ. Good luck on your decision

[ARY]

Why should i not consider Gavin vs SS?

[aw]

Alan what are your dive plans,that can address the scooter you need?

The 26 is like having that stage,you can't have too much air. I have a 26 tube and it collects dust because it is so heavy,and unnecessary for most of the dives I do. I usually use the 18 since it is easier to transport,and covers most of my dive plans,and actually if I have to push a single scooter back the distance a 26 will take me,I want a redundant scooter. I would look at the history of nickel metal packs because it is felt that there are more failure points,and I am going to let time answer that question before I committ. Good luck on your decision

I think I'm in agreement with you Kelly. I think the lead acid may be more reliable. And I think the 18 may be better suited too for most diving I would be doing with it. I was thinking along the line of one purchase to satisfy any possible diving need within the next 10 years. But I think the best approach would be to go with the 18 and buy the changeover for the 26 if I EVER get into a position where I can use one. That way I won't have too much needless scooter on my putz dives, but could modify with slight more cost later if I advanced to that needed level. Not an option if I went with a Te*kna or something else I could "grow" out of one day and then have to buy a complete new bigger one.

I've been saving up for an SS for several years now. Each time the balance gets up there, I find another use for the money (a new motorcycle trailer, the chance to get the Rouses' scooters, and I even bought some dumb things, such as food, clothing and shelter).

Whatever, I plan to buy the UV-26 with the UV-18 batteries and tube. I believe it's only $600 more to get both sizes.

You can use the UV-26 for big dives, and the UV-18 for ocean dives and basic cave dives. Also, you could make back-to-back cave dives without any downtime for charging.

[Kenny P.]

I think I'm in agreement with you Kelly. I think the lead acid may be more reliable. And I think the 18 may be better suited too for most diving I would be doing with it. I was thinking along the line of one purchase to satisfy any possible diving need within the next 10 years. But I think the best approach would be to go with the 18 and buy the changeover for the 26 if I EVER get into a position where I can use one. That way I won't have too much needless scooter on my putz dives, but could modify with slight more cost later if I advanced to that needed level. Not an option if I went with a Te*kna or something else I could "grow" out of one day and then have to buy a complete new bigger one.

I think you're headed in the right direction here, especially without the proper training. The 18 will do most of what you will do early on, in cave and still compact enough for a boat dive. It will keep you from going to a point of no return in a cave, hopefully!
I did the Mako thing first and still use it for a back-up / tow scooter, on longer dives. I did the long body with SLA battery pack and later added a short pack /body also with SLA batteries. I would not personally use a NiMH battery pack in a cave. Not worth the risk to me! Too many inherent problems with multi-cell packs including charging.
I would go for it on the new smaller scooters, for boat diving and O/W dives, if I was independently wealthy!
Bless,
Kenny P.

[jjsteffen]

I would have to disgree with the sentiments expressed on the Nimh batteries. I have one of Rodney's originals and have not had an issue with it for almost two years. I know members of the original X scooter running the rabbit tool batteries without issue to date. Rodney did have an issue with the electronic suite provided by the French for charging the battery, which is why he dumped them. The SS nimh can be burn tested to verify signal drop, whereas you would have to water test or meter the X to check the burn time on it. I feel that the concerns about the Nimh have not borne out, seems to be merely a preference based on battery cost.