TheNewGrandTraverse

[Dominick Gheesling]

First, please understand that this is in no part a critique on recent changes by the Line Committee at Peacock Springs, this is just a new cave diver looking for the best information on how to safely conduct the Grand Traverse.

I've just made over 100 Full Cave dives and for whatever reason the Grand Traverse has not been one of them or super high on my list of things to do. Maybe it is because I'm still diving wet but with current 100F temps let me tell you wet is where it is at. Maybe it is because many people that want to run the Grand Traverse don't want to make setup or cleanup dives.

So, prior to the recent line changes if I were planning to swim Orange Grove to P1 on the Peanut Line, I think I would setup on the Peanut Line, Install primary, install jump from Peanut to Olsen Line, continue towards Challenge, drop a point of no return cookie somewhere. The Traverse, I would come from Orange Grove, Install Primary, Drop my stage somewhere, swim through to my point of no return cookie without busting thirds, pick it up, swim though Challenge, make jump to Peanut Line and pull reel, exit through P1, remove primary. Cleanup dive, back at Orange Grove, pick up stage, pull primary, exit Orange Grove.

And if I have any of the above incorrect I am certain I will be informed.

Here's my question,
With the new line change Connecting the Peanut Line and Olsen Line with a T one no longer has to install that jump. So, would I essentially run the same setup dive except that now I simply mark the Peanut Line with a cookie rather than installing the jump to Olsen Line? Am I correct in believing there needs to be a setup dive even though that jump has been replaced by a T?

Seems like I would still need to verify that navigational change and my ability to manage gas on the full traverse.

BTW: The newly installed distance arrows on the Peanut Line are very nice.

[tbone1004]

basically it comes down to whether you want to recalculate at Challenge or not. If you recalc, you shouldn't need a stage to do that dive if you have anything bigger than HP100's. I dive with 121's, and with those I don't hit thirds until well past Challenge, so I don't have to do a setup dive for that leg, and if I'm doing the traverse via Olsen I won't hit my new third before Olsen, and then I won't hit the final one before I get back to P1 so there is no setup dive required if you are OK not running a primary into OG, but if you do, then it's a really simple dive to clean up. Bathing suit, mask/fins, stage bottle. If you have a weight belt with a d-ring on it and a loop of bungee to sling over your neck you can monkey dive it on a backup light and be in and out of there in 5 minutes.

If you're going via Peanut like you mentioned, which I think is a cooler dive, then you may well hit your new third if you are taking your sweet old time. In that case you can verify the gold line up peanut the day before and mark your third and call it a day. Quickie setup dive, but also a good shakedown, and there is some really cool passage past the xover tunnel.

If you are following all the rules, to do that dive you'd do the following.
Dive 1, go up the Peanut line and drop the cookie at your third. This does two things, validates the gold line, and tells you where you need the rest of your gas.
Dive 2, Traverse. Either recalc at Challenge or not, your call. Recalc is more complicated because you have two pressures you need to keep in mind.
Dive 3, pull primary in OG

Recalculating for this is fairly easy and should have been covered in your full cave class. If not, plenty of big threads on here.

[Kelly Jessop]

General rule of thumb basic rules apply like confirming the traverse from each direction, which is prudent if you are seeing new cave. If you do this, there is no need for recalculating thirds (amazingly nobody has died from having too much air)

It has always been suggested that new people do the traverse go from OG to P1 versus the other direction, because of the bailouts available toward the end of the dive. It is suggested that you go through Olsen versus the Peanut restriction due to Olsen as a bailout if needed. Where the Olsen- P1 leg puts you a little deeper, and can run the risk of deco, it is worth it to have Olsen as a bailout/regroup spot.

Have fun.

[rddvet]

It's good you're asking the questions. I see so many people that do the traverse but have never actually even gotten to their mid point and know where there "go/no-go" point is. The argument they always give is that they "know they have enough gas or carry a stage to be safe" and have olsen and challenge to bailout. I also see alot of people that recalculate their dive at each sink, still not knowing what their true go/no-go point is. I'm not a fan of recalculating at sinks, I think it adds too much added complexity in numbers to remember and I never consider either sink as a bailout as part of my calculation of how much gas I need. I wouldn't want to climb out of Challenge unless its an absolute extreme necessity.



It doesn't all have to be done together. You can do a few fun dives up the gold line and make notes in your wetnotes as to where you got with 1/3s or whatever gas reserve you choose. THen another weekend dive in the opposite direction and see where you get. Make a note and when it's clear you can easily hit the same point in both directions, you're good to go as far as gas is concerned. The only benefit of doing the setup dive right before the traverse so you can confirm all lines are good. I think that keeping notes of your points from both directions is good because there's going ot be variability in your sac each dive. I'd run the line into OG (I wouldn't worry about one at P1. You can always post to have someone pull your jumps and your reel another day.



BTW, have the changes actually been made yet. Last trip to PEacock they weren't

[MORGAN]

When Tracy and I did it the first time, we didn't place any markers - we used Challenge Sink as our "cookie". We had done Peacock 1 to Challenge and back a couple of times via both Peanut and Olsen. Then we did Orange Grove to Challenge and back. Having established that we could reach Challenge from either end while staying comfortably below thirds, we felt ready to do the whole traverse. We've done it quite a few times since, never carried a stage, and have never gotten close to our bottom third. Run time consistently 100 - 105 minutes.

[cmint]

I did it the textbook way the first time. It was comforting finding that cookie that let me know I had enough gas to finish.


I think you should not only leave the point of no return cookie in, but also leave in the cookie at the tee. Think about it... someone may have come along and teed some other jump between the time you dove past that tee and when you do the dive in reverse. You need to know you're at the right tee.


I know that you probably know what's in both directions (Olsen one way and peanut line the other) but if you were unfamiliar with the cave I'd DEFINITELY leave both cookies in.

[Dominick Gheesling]

It's good you're asking the questions. I see so many people that do the traverse but have never actually even gotten to their mid point and know where there "go/no-go" point is. The argument they always give is that they "know they have enough gas or carry a stage to be safe" and have olsen and challenge to bailout. I also see alot of people that recalculate their dive at each sink, still not knowing what their true go/no-go point is. I'm not a fan of recalculating at sinks, I think it adds too much added complexity in numbers to remember and I never consider either sink as a bailout as part of my calculation of how much gas I need. I wouldn't want to climb out of Challenge unless its an absolute extreme necessity.



It doesn't all have to be done together. You can do a few fun dives up the gold line and make notes in your wetnotes as to where you got with 1/3s or whatever gas reserve you choose. THen another weekend dive in the opposite direction and see where you get. Make a note and when it's clear you can easily hit the same point in both directions, you're good to go as far as gas is concerned. The only benefit of doing the setup dive right before the traverse so you can confirm all lines are good. I think that keeping notes of your points from both directions is good because there's going ot be variability in your sac each dive. I'd run the line into OG (I wouldn't worry about one at P1. You can always post to have someone pull your jumps and your reel another day.



BTW, have the changes actually been made yet. Last trip to PEacock they weren't

Yes, changes are being installed. Peanut now T's into Olsen.

[sandy]

Dominick, I would surprised if you needed a stage. if you can travel from P1 to Challenge on back gas, you can probably do the same from OG to Challenge. I need a stage but your air consumption is a lower than mine. But at the end of the day, do what is best/most comfortable for you. I would not drop it on dive 2 if you use it though.

[FW]

Dominick, I would surprised if you needed a stage. if you can travel from P1 to Challenge on back gas, you can probably do the same from OG to Challenge. I need a stage but your air consumption is a lower than mine. But at the end of the day, do what is best/most comfortable for you. I would not drop it on dive 2 if you use it though.

I carried a stage on my first traverse. I didn't need it, but it made me feel safer. To quote a wise person, "nobody ever died from having too much gas".

[Diverlee]

If I?m with only one other person I carry a buddy bottle. Just makes me feel better. If I?m with a large group I do not


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