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  1. #1
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    Default HP hose failure at max penetrartion

    I thought I would do a write up on an incident I had this weekend at Ginnie. It is a very minor incident, one probably many people have had, but thought writing it up is a good learning experience for others.

    My wife and I decided to scooter Ginnie on Saturday. We did the dive on backgas, not carrying a stage. I don't want to get hung up on that point as it's a debatable point. Many people are taught to never scooter without carrying a stage, while others are taught to scooter on backgas after performing the appropriate gas calculations. Either way, the plan was to just do a simple, easy dive to very conservative 1/3s ( I won't go into what that means to us exactly other than to say we don't believe in diving full 1/3s and when a scooter is involved we turn way,way before 1/3s). The dive was up the bone line, jump back onto the mainline, then turn at the area just past sweet surprise where the line takes a hard right around a corner then continues straight. I believe that is 22-2400p. This is a dive we've done several times before, so we know what our gas supply is at the turn point and if we're burning more gas than that to turn earlier.

    The dive was routine and easy, and both our gas consumptions were better than normal. I was the second diver, becoming the lead as we turned it with very, very conservative gas remaining. As I usually do when I turn the dive, I rechecked pressure on both sidemount tanks, got the OK to proceed out and continued on my merry way. Within 30 seconds, I received and emergency light signal, and before I could even turn around my wife was in my face with her long hose in her right hand and was shutting down my right tank at the same time. I was on my left tank, so I had no need to accept the donation. It took me a second to realize she had started shutting down my tank. When I looked down all was ok, so once we were collected I turned on the tank to find a decent steam of air escaping from my hp spg hose where the hose attaches to the crimp fitting on the first stage end. I examined the hose further and saw it had completely ruptured. I checked my spg on that side and it showed 600 psi. I knew there was no way I could have lost well over 2-2500 psi in that short amount of time. We exited the cave at a decent speed on the scooters, leaving our jumps and exiting via the mainline, while being prepared to feather the valve on the way out if necessary (but with the amount of gas available in the left tank that never would have been necessary even if both scooters failed and we had to swim out.)

    There were a few things I learned from the incident. Firstly, just as your instructors warn, we were of course at max penetration when the issue occurred. Being extremely conservative and living by the rule of progressive penetration made the exit out completely non-stressful. I've always been told a hp hose failure is a much less severe problem than a lp hose. That is obviously very true as I never heard a thing, and because I was on a scooter I never saw any bubbling. I would have not caught the problem likely until the next time I checked my spg. I always assumed that even with a hp failure you would hear it. I also didn't think about the fact that I may still get an spg reading, and especially how inaccurate it would be. After the dive I checked the affected tank and had only lost 300psi. So obviously don't believe your spg in that case. Having a stage obviously would have given us even more gas to deal with the issue, but was not a necessity as we calculated our gas needs and knew how to be conservative based on having done the dive before.

    As for the cause of the hp failure, it actually wasn't a complete surprise. My spgs are on rear facing 6 inch hoses. I don't generally bend the hose around to view my spg because I've already noted that doing that puts heavy strain on the hose at the crimp. I generally pull my tank forward by the valve if I need a closer look, but do on occasion have to bend the spg forward some when I'm really having trouble seeing it. I inspect the spg hoses at the crimp regularly due to that fact. It now is making me considering going back to 9 inch spg hoses, which I wasn't a big fan of.


  2. #2
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    Thanks for the write up, interesting and useful, especially as I mostly dive solo. I would've thought one could easily hear big air leaks, even scootering, but my prior experience has been thankfully limited to just the occasional free flows, I guess those are pretty easy to notice. I'm surprised you lost 300psi in 30 seconds or less, so your tank would've been empty in less than 5 minutes?! Wow, many times I scooter for way longer than that on a stage without checking any pressures, maybe time to reassess that habit.
    And why not pointing the spgs forward? Easier to see and no more bending.


  3. #3
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    Default

    I agree! Thanks for the write up. Maybe thought provoking? This is the stuff I enjoy on the forum. In fact, I remember someone commenting on my practice of 2 five foot hoses. Perhaps I have since given that more thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    ...And why not pointing the spgs forward? Easier to see and no more bending.


    (Which is the way prefer I dive, for whatever that is worth) I prefer to have my SPGs forward, but angled into my chest for a number of reasons. However, maybe there is not a practical way to configure some first stages for this?

    Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
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    The most certain way to stumble into the future, is to live your life looking over your shoulder.
    -Jeff Hawes after getting a huge mulligan...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    Thanks for the write up, interesting and useful, especially as I mostly dive solo. I would've thought one could easily hear big air leaks, even scootering, but my prior experience has been thankfully limited to just the occasional free flows, I guess those are pretty easy to notice. I'm surprised you lost 300psi in 30 seconds or less, so your tank would've been empty in less than 5 minutes?! Wow, many times I scooter for way longer than that on a stage without checking any pressures, maybe time to reassess that habit.
    And why not pointing the spgs forward? Easier to see and no more bending.
    The main reason I wrote it up was because I was shocked I couldn't hear it. I can always hear free flows or my wife's reg honk occasionally. I was shocked I didn't hear it. Maybe I just was in lala land but it was right after turning the dive when I'm focused on confirming everything is good. As for the loss of gas it may have been less. Towards the end of the dive on deco I turned on the tank a few times to see exactly what was going on and lost gas as well as my opposite spg that I used to check final pressure on the bad tank is a little off compared to my right. But still there was likely a couple 100 psi loss. It was definitely no little leak, but not anything like a lp failure.

    As for spg direction, I learned with spg lollipopped out. I personally don't like it. I think an spg facing out is likely to catch more stuff and isn't as clean. It would allow easier spg visualization, but like anything there's trade offs. I'm very conscious of the stress I place on the crimp fitting while checking the spg, but it's impossible not to stress it from time to time. At the same time sometimes hoses just fail. I had inspected it prior to the dive and couldn't see any damage, so I think it was hidden under the lip of the crimp. I think switching to a 9 inch hose would be a better compromise, though I'm likely going to stick with a 6 inch. This particular hose was about 5 years old.


  5. #5
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    A tiny leak in the HP hose will cause the pressure gauge to read low.


  6. #6
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    What kind of HP hose?


  7. #7
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    During my last trip to Cave Country in April I had a 6" rubber HP hose explode at Ginnie while carrying my tanks down to the swim run. The odd thing was the reg had been charged for about 20 minutes or more and then just seriously exploded with a loud bang just before going down the steps.

    The hose was about 5 years old but only had a couple of years use. Last year I finally gave up on Myflex type HP hoses. Too many failures in too short of time span.

    I'm uncertain how many dives the hose had and how many it had hanging back or antenna style as I had changed config several times, experimenting by rotating first stages etc.

    At the end of that trip I did switch HP hose config again and I'm much happier with the current setup. Not to open another shiit storm but... between first stage rotation and moving to 4" HP hoses, the spg's are pressed snuggly against my chest and must be moved slightly forward for viewing.

    After about 50 dives, never having any scooping action, or catching the spg's on anything, I'm pretty happy with this setup. Although I likely have much more experience with having them rear facing, I often found them to be a bit of a PITA to read while carrying bottles on top. Yes, I usually top mount stages, and sometimes rotate down if too floaty during exit and conditions are suitable (not during some passages off the keyhole bypass or the like )

    Has anyone else found a functional method of using 4" HP hoses?

    Last edited by Michael F; 08-22-2017 at 04:39 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rddvet View Post
    As for the cause of the hp failure, it actually wasn't a complete surprise. My spgs are on rear facing 6 inch hoses. I don't generally bend the hose around to view my spg because I've already noted that doing that puts heavy strain on the hose at the crimp. I generally pull my tank forward by the valve if I need a closer look, but do on occasion have to bend the spg forward some when I'm really having trouble seeing it. I inspect the spg hoses at the crimp regularly due to that fact. It now is making me considering going back to 9 inch spg hoses, which I wasn't a big fan of.
    Thank you for sharing your story.

    I have heard of numerous people who have had hose failures with using the method of running the hose/spg down the tank. You observed you don't frequently flex/unflex your hose to read it, which they do frequently,but wonder if the hose stowed in this fashion will expose it to contact more frequently.

    Glad you are okay.

    "Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick

  9. #9
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    It was a rubber hose btw. I've avoided the miflex due to the failures.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael F View Post
    ... between first stage rotation and moving to 4" HP hoses, the spg's are pressed snuggly against my chest and must be moved slightly forward for viewing.

    After about 50 dives, never having any scooping action, or catching the spg's on anything, I'm pretty happy with this setup.

    Has anyone else found a functional method of using 4" HP hoses?
    My SPG's are on 6" hoses; otherwise the same setup as yours. They ride in contact with my chest, and in about 200 dives in this configuration I've never had them get caught on anything or touch the bottom. I have loops of 1/8" bungee tied into my shoulder straps that I can tuck them into to make sure they stay where I want them, but I find that I seldom use them as the gauges pretty much stay put.

    Mike



 

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