Transmitters

[TaylorP]

What is your guys' opinion on transmitters in a system. I feel there's no place for it but I have a buddy who is hell bent on they will never fail.

[cmra914]

I have had problems more than once on a Suunto computer that I used to use for OW only, I won't use them on anything now. I've never had my analog pressure gauge fail during a dive.


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[Kelly Jessop]

This discussion comes up frequently, and I think a large majority agree they don't belong in cave diving. We have gotten more technology dependent in cave diving,but somethings have a higher failure rate, and their failure can be less forgiving than in open water

[MORGAN]

...they will never fail.

Has your buddy never owned a car, a house, a computer, a cell phone, or any other artifact of human endeavor?

A couple of thoughts:

1) Everything fails eventually.

2) Time until failure and mean time between failures are both inversely proportional to complexity.

Complex electronic things are more likely to fail during a dive than simple mechanical things. And electronic radio transmitter SPG's are an example of something designed specifically to transfer money from the pocket of the diver to the pockets of the manufacturer, distributor, and retailer. There is no other conceivable reason for the existence of such a thing. Tell your buddy to buy a regular old fashioned SPG and spend the money he's saved on something worth having, such as bacon.

I have not had enough coffee yet this morning and am still cranky. Can you tell?

Mike

[TaylorP]

Has your buddy never owned a car, a house, a computer, a cell phone, or any other artifact of human endeavor?

A couple of thoughts:

1) Everything fails eventually.

2) Time until failure and mean time between failures are both inversely proportional to complexity.

Complex electronic things are more likely to fail during a dive than simple mechanical things. And electronic radio transmitter SPG's are an example of something designed specifically to transfer money from the pocket of the diver to the pocket of the manufacturer and distributor. There is no other conceivable reason for the existence of such a thing. Tell your buddy to buy a regular old fashioned SPG and spend the money he's saved on something worth having, such as bacon.

I have not had enough coffee yet this morning and am still cranky. Can you tell?

Mike

I got a good kick out of it!

We tried talking to him last night at dinner and he just would not listen to a word anyone had to say about it. He's strictly CCR, will not dive oc. I don't think he realizes that when we're diving a mixed team we don't have the time he does. What's one way I can bring it up to him to where he realizes that it is just another failure point?

[MORGAN]

Is he diving CCR because he's doing dives that require a rebreather, or is he using a rebreather to do dives that could be done OC because he enjoys using complex equipment? If the latter, than he's an incurable technophile and gearhead and thus impervious to logic. That doesn't make him a bad person...

I have to plead partially guilty to those tendencies myself - in all aspects of my life outside of work I'm a low tech Luddite keep it simple guy. But at work I'm a critical care nurse at a university teaching hospital and love numbers and waveforms and digital displays. The more blinking lights and machines that go "ping" the better!

[tbone1004]

if he dives CCR and has them on dil and O2 I have no problem with it, and actually am surprised CCR's haven't moved to wired AI with the sensor in the head and the regs connected to it with controller displaying pressure. With the current generation out there I actually see no issue with them. On sidemount, put a button gauge on the top so you can check pressure without the computer at the surface predive if you want, but if you have a transmitter fail, it's just like any other failure underwater, turn the dive. It's not life ending if you don't know your pressure, you aren't going to lose any gas for your exit. With some of the older transmitters that were prone to dropping connections and had trouble syncing I get it, we were ahead of the technology, but if Shearwater came out with an AI option, I would likely try it. Going to try to convince Seabear to send a set around for some of the cave divers to try on our sidemount rigs and see if it is a legitimate option.

I do think it's the way of the future, but its too cost prohibitive on the newer transmitters right now to justify buying in with the bugs they still seem to be ironing out.

[TaylorP]

Is he diving CCR because he's doing dives that require a rebreather, or is he using a rebreather to do dives that could be done OC because he enjoys using complex equipment? If the latter, than he's an incurable technophile and gearhead and thus impervious to logic. That doesn't make him a bad person...

I have to plead partially guilty to those tendencies myself - in all aspects of my life outside of work I'm a low tech Luddite keep it simple guy. But at work I'm a critical care nurse at a university teaching hospital and love numbers and waveforms and digital displays. The more blinking lights and machines that go "ping" the better!

No, he's a fantastic guy I'm very glad to have him as a dive buddy. He has a smaller frame, almost 0 body fat so he gets cold easy. He enjoys the warm gas and how light they are and all that, I just see a transmitter getting knocked off of his bailout and him losing his saving grace. I'll suggest the button gauge, they're cheap enough to slap a few on!

[nakatomi]

On sidemount, put a button gauge on the top so you can check pressure without the computer at the surface predive if you want, but if you have a transmitter fail, it's just like any other failure underwater, turn the dive.

Which shouldn't be an issue when swimming back and forth from Olsen or when exploring the depths of the horseshoe circuit.
On the other hand when you're 70 minutes from the exit or a stage tank, you won't want half of your gas to fade away because one unnecessary component of your gear blew an o-ring.
SPG's are currently the simplest and most reliable form of gauging the pressure, why add additional failure points?

[tbone1004]

if you have transmitter straight on the first stage and a button gauge it should actually be less O-rings. Button gauges use the same single O-ring as a port plug, and the transmitters if not on a hose extension should be the same single o-ring on the first stage.

Failure points for air leak I don't buy, failure due to batteries sure, but that's not catastrophic, just means you have to turn