Another which scooter thread

[a64pilot]

I like Alan am stuck on one brand, and like Alan it's largely a service / support quality of build thing.
So, Magnus or Viper? I don't think I want a Minnus, and that's mostly a personal, gut feeling sort of thing, I don't like gearboxes, I like keep it simple- stupid, if possible, or said another way, if it's simple and it works, it ain't stupid.
I started down the road of thinking, buy a used N-19, put the Venom electronics in it thereby getting the three speeds and getting an increase in run time from the three speeds, but keeping the NiMH battery until I get some experience and getting the LIPO when and if I needed it, that gives me a scoot that can travel if I ever need that, plus an extra battery if I need that.
But, the value of good used N-19's seems to kind of make this plan not necessarily viable economically, or said in plain English, you can buy a new Viper for about the same money.
Magnus on the other hand is $1,500 bucks more, but is faster and has longer legs. Is it worth the money, is it's speed and range ever needed or is it just wretched excess?

[jj1987]

What types of dives do you plan on doing with the scooter? Heinkle or Trash Pile and back or going to the end of gold in Manatee?

One thing to remember about a magnus is it's range us 100% useless without a tow scooter. If you're only buying one, keep that in mind.

[FW]

I have heard a lot of great things about the Viper, and I just sent my N-19 in for the upgrade. The Minnus is nice, but doesn't have the range. The Magnus is great fun

[Ben M]

I have a Magnus and love it, but the others were not options at the time. I'm considering what to get for a backup to replace a Lead Acid scooter, and the decision will most likely come to a Minnus 1.5 and a Viper. They are all great scooters. I wouldn't discount the Minnus on complexity. The 1.5 weighs 10 lbs less than the others.

James, I'm not sure there's a great difference between scooters with a 8 mile range and a 6 mile range. Like most things in cave diving, the decision to bring a tow scooter depends on the dive plan. Hauling more gear than a dive requires is not generally the best idea either. All factors must be considered.

[phillip1]

I have an n19 and really like it, plus now with the viper upgrade it goes way further range wise and it is still really small and fast, not to mention tough and simple.

[a64pilot]

One thing to remember about a magnus is it's range us 100% useless without a tow scooter. If you're only buying one, keep that in mind.

I think you are absolutely correct, I have been advised that a Viper with a Mako backup is less money than a Magnus, and you just can't shoot holes in that logic, it's obviously true. Before I get my experience up to the point to where I'd be scootering beyond where I could easily swim out, I'll have a back up scoot, but that's some time from now. If you believe the Tahoe Benchmark, then a cruising Viper has the same range as a Magnus, but there is something flaky there, they say the Magnus battery is something like 746 watt/hour? The range in the Tahoe benchmark is "calculated", not measured I think, that is determine the current draw and divide by the available battery. If of course you either overstate or understate the available battery power, then you range estimates are worthless. So is a Magnus a 746 WH battery, a 950 WH or a 888 WH? Difference between 746 and 950 is significant. I'd bet it's actually closer to 950, but the manufacturer claims 888 being conservative and that's one way to make a good name for yourself, always outperform your advertising. So where did Tahoe get the 746 from? According to them , the Viper is a "bigger" battery than the Magnus?
Range wise what I am after is being able to essentially go to end of the line twice in JB for example, with stages and dragging a back-up scooter, with the idea of doing two dives in one day and I want at least a 25% margin. I do know that if you don't cycle batteries very deeply they last a lot longer, so there is logic in buying more range than you need. I have NO scooter experience, but have other electrical vehicle experience and some LIPO experience. If you have 8 mile range out of the box, figure it's 5 or less actually, because batteries do degrade and unless you can afford to buy a new battery every year you need to be be thinking what will my range be in two years? I want to do my math on a battery that is near the end of it's useful life. I'm assuming a LIPO in this kind of useage will last around three, maybe four years? Pure guessing on my part, you can't go by Hybrid cars as what they do to batteries is nowhere near as stressful.

[OFG-1]

Well, if you want to save money, buy a UV 26 that also has a UV 18 conversion setup. Either set of batteries will get to to EOL in Jackson, battery replacement on both sets is $400 or less, and you can buy a good used setup for about 1/2 the costs of a new Vyper. I have a N-19, and its a great scooter, but in retrospect, I wish i had taken this advise.

[a64pilot]

I should clarify that "where did they get 746 from" as it sounds inflammatory and I do not want to sound that way. I am sure the 746 is a measured current draw from on board data gathering equipment and it came from the "Enduro" test, but there must have been something wrong with the battery, or something.

[Sludge]

what I am after is being able to essentially go to end of the line twice in JB for example...

JB has electricity at most of the pavilions. I always put my scooter on charge between dives. Just pointing that out.

[a64pilot]

OFG-1, your right of course I'm sure. I should have also brought up I'm a wimp, or that is due to a Rich Uncle I've had several knee operations and 50 lbs is about the max I can handle, the biggest draw for me to sidemount was I could handle the tanks one at a time.
Money is an issue of course, but it's not the only issue. If it weren't I'd buy a house down in Cave Country with an open field big enough to land in, probably have one in the Bahamas too. Maybe in my next life?
Back to reality, only concern is I don't want to be wishing a year from now that I had gone ahead and paid a little extra and gotten that Magnus.
In theory the range of the Magnus should be at least 25% more than a Viper, I think if I do the math right , the battery is about 12% more capacity, a brushless motor is maybe about 10% or so more efficient than a brushed motor, and there is some, unknown to me higher efficiency because the battery is a higher voltage. I said theory, reality sometimes proves theories wrong, Bumble Bees do fly after all.