Setting the record straight...

[Rob]

So it’s been a while since I was on any of these forums mostly because it’s been a while since I was actively cave diving. But I recently found out that there is a nasty rumor being spread around about something I supposedly did. While I am fairly certain who might have started it, this is not the place to get into a pissing contest with anyone. So I am just going to set the record straight and those who have heard the rumors and are continuing to spread them can know the truth.

Several years ago I was in a cave in the panhandle that was rarely dived. As a matter of fact my buddy and I were probably the first divers in there in several years. When we entered the cave we found the current line deteriorated very badly so we decided to work on replacing it at that point. When we were only about 50-100 feet inside we came across a skeleton imbedded in the ceiling. We took a few pictures of it then proceeded on replacing the line. This cave is extremely fragile and silty. When we ran out of line we turned the dive with the intentions of coming back in a few weeks to clean up the line that we laid. When we passed by the skeleton we sifted through the debris on the floor and were able to find several vertebrae which we picked up.

The following week I contacted a marine biology professor at the University of Florida about the find and he asked me to bring the bones with me the next time I was down there. I turned the bones over to him to add to the Museum of Natural History’s collection and he asked if I could go back and see if the skull was still there so that he could decide if it were a dugong or a whale. Apparently the lower vertebrae are similar enough to make it difficult to tell the difference between them. So, the museum kept the bones and copies of the pictures for their records. I went back a few times and looked for the skull but was never able to find it. Considering the hundreds of thousands of years that had passed since the creature was buried there more than likely it had been washed out of the cave hundreds if not thousands of years ago. They asked about potentially removing the section of rock that the rest of the bones were embedded in for the museum to display but after discussions we decided that it was best to leave them there and hope that nobody went back with a chisel to try and take them.

In a conversation I had with another dive buddy (wingman on the cdf) he also came across some bones from the same cave that another diver gave him and he also took them to the Museum of Natural History. He was told the same thing about trying to find the skull and if found perhaps extracting the entire skeleton as an intact dugong skeleton is relatively rare, especially in the part of Florida where it is. Again, it was decided to leave the skeleton there and hope for the best.

So, to set the record straight I never took the skull because I never found it. Had it been there and I found it, it would be at the Museum of Natural History now in their collection because that is where it belongs. Had the skull been found and left in the cave there is no doubt in my mind that someone would have taken it to put in their own private collection and that may have happened here because we were not the first to dive the cave. I find it troubling that so many divers take artifacts out of the caves to display on their living room tables. I am not against removing something, just it going to someone’s private collection. What I learned from my visit to UF is that when something is found it is best to contact a professional (archaeologist, paleontologist, etc.) who can provide information about how to preserve the scientific record. I know of too many instances when a private collection isn’t even on display in a living room but rather it’s in a plastic crate buried under dive gear getting destroyed because it was never properly removed from the cave nor preserved in the proper way. While it is sad to remove anything from a cave at least when it goes to a museum everyone can see it and enjoy looking at it and it can be studied and we can learn from it and have a little better understanding of the Earth’s history.

[Ben M]

Rob,

I'm sure many on here do not know what cave you are referring too or even who you are. I'd like to think I know most of the currently active cavers in the panhandle area at least by name, but I'm sure there are a few out there. I have not heard anything about you or anyone else removing the skull. In fact the only time I have heard anyone speak of removing bones from that cave was you telling me the above story last summer after I saw your line arrows in there and asked about them. I'm either in the wrong circles or the rumor is less rampant. Since it bothered you enough to post about it hopefully your post has helped in some way. I'm not sure I'd worry too much about it one way or the other. If you ever want to get back into the caves look me up and we can go diving again.

On a side note, I wonder if that professor knows what he is talking about. The folks down in Venice that do the Megalodon tooth diving can sort whale from manatee bones quite easily. I only did one trip with them and the differences were pretty easy to pickup after seeing a few pieces. Maybe there is something about being in freshwater vs saltwater or the particular bone you brought back, but from what I've seen the skull is not really necessary for ID. I don't know, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

[Rob]

Ben,

What bothered me about the rumor is that the guy just said it outright to a buddy of mine. He didn't know any circumstances and he just said that this is what he had heard. So, there is someone out there that is spreading something about me that is not true and either they know this or they don't and are just ignorant.

The professor went through the catalogs pulling out various whale and manatee bones and was comparing this to them. They looked identical and he was saying the further down the spine they are the more they are alike because both creatures were so closely related at the time. The vertebra that I pulled out were damaged and that made it a little more difficult. They said for a positive ID they needed the ones from the neck area and they wanted the skull because they didn't have one in good condition.

I have actually gotten most of my gear serviced so that I could get back there and do some diving but I just can't get the time off of work. We are currently on mandatory O/T with no end in sight. They keep offering me comp time but if I can't take any vacation time what is the purpose of accepting comp time? I won't ever be able to take it... So, if I can get out of here for a few days I will let you know, I have promised Bill to go diving with him but I feel really bad about having to skip out on him thus far.

[AB8CD]

As a person who has worked in ministry and law enforcement I have had the pleasure of not only rumors but attacks on my character and even my job.

I can tell you from personal experience that it was often less painful having gravel pulled out of my skin in an Emergency Room from rolling around with someone in an alley than being the subject of an attack of rumors and innuendos (and those who spread them will always find an attentive audience).

The best advice I can offer is that the wisest people will judge from personal experience, not rumors. An old road officer once gave me this advice about people who play such games, "Don't let them rent space in your head."

Welcome back.

[Ward Beecher]

Rob,

Welcome back. You do need to get out of SA and go dive again. The cave you are talking about is now dove fairly regularly. Edd even sells a video of it that Ryan took.

Ward

[-heidi-o]

Rob,
This sounds like an amazing sight to see! I also do not understand the purpose of finding artifacts and keeping them at home... it would be so much more beneficial to have a picture in your living room and the artifact where it belongs.

[Rob]

As a person who has worked in ministry and law enforcement I have had the pleasure of not only rumors but attacks on my character and even my job.

I can tell you from personal experience that it was often less painful having gravel pulled out of my skin in an Emergency Room from rolling around with someone in an alley than being the subject of an attack of rumors and innuendos (and those who spread them will always find an attentive audience).

The best advice I can offer is that the wisest people will judge from personal experience, not rumors. An old road officer once gave me this advice about people who play such games, "Don't let them rent space in your head."

Welcome back.

It's not that it really bothers me all that much, it was just that there is a second side to the story that people should be aware of. People will have their own opinions and I am not going to try and change them. Open minded people will listen and make an informed decision, close minded people won't listen and made up their minds long before I posted this.

[rchrds]

Hate to hear the skeleton is mostly gone? Haven't been back there in many years, but that is what happens when people let out about good caves. Sigh.

Jason

[Rob]

Rob,

Welcome back. You do need to get out of SA and go dive again. The cave you are talking about is now dove fairly regularly. Edd even sells a video of it that Ryan took.

Ward

I keep trying to get back for some diving but work just doesn't seem to cooperate very well. We are currently on mandatory O/T with no end in sight. My calendar is pretty much filled through November, after that I just have to see. I actually got most of my gear serviced over the last few months with the intention of doing some diving.

Rob,
This sounds like an amazing sight to see! I also do not understand the purpose of finding artifacts and keeping them at home... it would be so much more beneficial to have a picture in your living room and the artifact where it belongs.

I have some pictures of it somewhere. I know several people that have very nice collections at home. There are a few of them that are truly museum quality and those folks have lent some items out to museums from time to time. Those are really the only private displays that I have any respect for.

[Rob]

Hate to hear the skeleton is mostly gone? Haven't been back there in many years, but that is what happens when people let out about good caves. Sigh.

Jason

Most of it had been natural deterioration the last time I was there.