Cenote diving with a guide is mandatory

[Phil]

Hi there,
I went to Mexico about three weeks ago.
We were two people diving together on our own (no guide).

One day on a site, a van come along with a guide and 5 or 6 other divers. We get in the water before them and exited before also but we encounter them on our way out. Except from the silt they were stirring, everything seems good.

During our surface interval, they came out. Divers were from Europe and were speaking something like Russian I think. They started speaking loud and it was obvious that something happened during the dive.

At one moment the guide that was not speaking their language ask about what they were speaking. They were speaking about the incident....

During the exit, the last two persons supposedly took a jump without noticing it. The rest of the group p stayed together on the good line. At one moment the guide noticed the absence of the two divers. After the dive, the guide said "I did not want to leave you guys going alone (3 or 4 divers) toward the exit because I was scared you couldn’t find your way out without me”…. That is scary because everyone in the group was cave divers certified… Then the guide got on the subject of the two lost divers. The guide said “You know, when you want to know if you are exiting on the way you were getting in, you just have to follow your silting… if there is no silt, you are on the wrong way”… that is scary and sad…

Then, at the end, the guide said “You know, that is why you need a guide, you guys are not good enough divers to dive in caves by your own, it is dangerous for you. You should always dive with a guide”.

And another nice quote of that guide "People die in cenote because they get lost, in Florida, people dies because the caves are deep".

I am wondering what the credentials to be a cave diving guide…

I taught I should share that experience.
We had a lot of fun listening to that, but again, it is kind of scary to hear.

Phil.

[SMB]

Hi there,
I went to Mexico about three weeks ago.
We were two people diving together on our own (no guide).

One day on a site, a van come along with a guide and 5 or 6 other divers. We get in the water before them and exited before also but we encounter them on our way out. Except from the silt they were stirring, everything seems good.

During our surface interval, they came out. Divers were from Europe and were speaking something like Russian I think. They started speaking loud and it was obvious that something happened during the dive.

At one moment the guide that was not speaking their language ask about what they were speaking. They were speaking about the incident....

During the exit, the last two persons supposedly took a jump without noticing it. The rest of the group p stayed together on the good line. At one moment the guide noticed the absence of the two divers. After the dive, the guide said "I did not want to leave you guys going alone (3 or 4 divers) toward the exit because I was scared you couldn’t find your way out without me”…. That is scary because everyone in the group was cave divers certified… Then the guide got on the subject of the two lost divers. The guide said “You know, when you want to know if you are exiting on the way you were getting in, you just have to follow your silting… if there is no silt, you are on the wrong way”… that is scary and sad…

Then, at the end, the guide said “You know, that is why you need a guide, you guys are not good enough divers to dive in caves by your own, it is dangerous for you. You should always dive with a guide”.

And another nice quote of that guide "People die in cenote because they get lost, in Florida, people dies because the caves are deep".

I am wondering what the credentials to be a cave diving guide…

I taught I should share that experience.
We had a lot of fun listening to that, but again, it is kind of scary to hear.

Phil.

Yes very scary.
The lesson to learn from this is choose who you dive with carefully.........both buddies and guides.

There are some very good, very professional cave guides working in the area however unfortunately there are also some very bad ones.

There are also guides who are not resident in Mexico but bring groups down on a regular basis.
Some of the worst guiding I have seen has been visiting guides with very large groups of cave divers who seem to care nothing for either their divers safety or conservation of the caves.

Why would anyone want to do a guided cave dive with 6 other divers plus the guide?
It does not sound like much fun to me and the potential for confusion and miscommunication is very high with this number of divers.
The absolute maximum ratio should be 3 to 1 and even then that is too many for some dives.

Many of the fatalities that have happened here have involved large groups of guided cave divers but some guides do not seem to have learned from this.
Either that or they just don't care because they earn more money by taking larger groups.

Ok rant over...........caveat emptor

[Sludge]

Why would anyone want to do a guided cave dive with 6 other divers plus the guide?

Yes, that's about seven people more than I like to have in a cave.

[Phil]

Yes, that's about seven people more than I like to have in a cave.

We did a couple of guided dives 5 years ago in Mexico.
At that time, we were 2 + the guide. I dont think that diving with a guide is bad. A guide should be there to facilitate the diving (gas, transport, sites, where to go to see interesting things), but I would never put my life in the hands of a guide. Every certified cave diver should know how to find is way out of a cave, without a guide...

Phil

[newman_diver]

I think it's a good idea to get a guide if you are new to an area. I know a lot of people who have spent more time trying to find mainlines and jumps than they spent enjoying the dives. Guides can also make things logistically simple. My wife and I are heading down to Mexico in April for a few days of cave diving and went with a guide. Eventually I hope to know the area well enough to not need a guide but until then....

As long as you do your research and communicate with potential guides you should end up being satisfied with your decision.

[battles2a5]

I was in the Dominican this past December. We were kitting up to start a dive and we saw some lights emerging from the cave below. The first thing to break the water was a snorkel. Followed by 5 or 6 more. Then came the "cave guide" with an 80 and a 30cf pony bottle. The guide wasn't cave trained, all of the divers were OW, they didn't run a line to the mainline (at least 100 ft in), and they all had one light. They were all completely clueless about what they were doing. I was absolutely dumbfounded. My guide said something to the DM but he was brushed off. I think we all take for granted the quality of available instruction and level of standardization that we have in the states.

[Gary]

Then, at the end, the guide said “You know, that is why you need a guide, you guys are not good enough divers to dive in caves by your own, it is dangerous for you. You should always dive with a guide”.

That's the scary part.

The guide after diving with these guys is basically saying they are incopetent and should never that recieved their cave diving certifications - but he takes them into the caves anyway.

He's either falsely promoting the need for guides or willfully guilty of gross negligence in any of their deaths when/if they occur.

Since some did get lost I'm betting it's "guilty of gross negligence"

and who certified cave divers who can't even be trusted to find their way out of a cave without a guide?

[Adam Korytko]

Was this by any chance at Pet Cemetery?

Unfortunately, anyone can guide ... it is up to the individual cave divers to ensure their safety by finding out in advance who their guide/s will be and what the maximum guide to diver ratio will be.

We recently had a group of 11 cave divers and hired another two guides (one a respected instructor, the other an instructor intern) to ensure a maximum ratio of 3:1, while splitting the groups into different caves each day. Anything less seems to show a total disregard for the safety of the divers and potential damage to the cave.

Qualified guides can make your vacation much more enjoyable, just be careful, there is no strength in numbers.

Dive safely,

[Phil]

Again, I dont want this story to be seen as if I am against guided dives. I think it fulfil the needs of a large number of cave divers going in a new place like in Mexico. I have used guide before. It is my personal choice to go there with my buddy and to dive alone as a group of two.

What I find bad is when I see a large number of divers going into tinny places, messing with the viz and making dammages to the cenote. Not saying when people seems to put their lives into the guide hands.

On the second dive, they follwed us again, and lets say that they didn't want to loose their way. The viz was a mess behind them.

Phil

[Aktun]

On the second dive, they follwed us again, and lets say that they didn't want to loose their way. The viz was a mess behind them.

Phil