What do you do when you see snorkles 300 ft into a cave?

[DogDiver]

Ya, know.....ya can't fix stupid!!!!! Anyway, this reminds me if a dive I made at Ginnie a few years ago. We were on our deco in the eye, when two divers (single 80's) started unspooling some 1/4 inch polypropoline rope. As it was floating all over the place in the flow while they were tring to tie it up to the log, I casually swam over and "lifted" thier lights...Pelican or UK double C cells I think. I then opened them up and took the batteries out of them. By this time they had realized what I was doing. I politely handed back the batteryless lights. My buddy flooded his mask laughing and I almost did the same. They left the water and I had some kind words to explain the foolishness of this. They explained that they were Advanced divers and were only going to a depth of 60 feet. Again, ya can't fix stupid.... safe diving all.....Ken

[FW]

This discussion reminds me of why NACD is inviting OW divers to and having information for them at the "Spring Into Safe Cave Diving" event at Ginnie Springs on April 11: http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9629

I don't know if any OW divers are planning to attend, but if even one gains an understanding of why their training has not prepared them to go into caves, it will be worth the attempt to educate them.

I couldn't agree more!

[Corbett]

A few years ago a buddy and I had a similar situation at Manatee. We were heading out
about 200' from Catfish when we saw what looked like two candles. Of course it was a
couple in O/W gear (tank nets and all) They turned when we blocked our lights.
We followed them out, which was good because they seemed to be arguing which way
was out while holding onto the gold "anchor line". My buddy and I exited at Manatee,
and told the rangers about their diver problem "but your the only divers here today"

O/W divers are told at check-in that no lights are allowed in Catfish, and they keep the
C-cards and put all divers into a group number and classification (cert. level, where they
enter, and what time they will be out) Unfortunately some people don't ck. in as divers
and dive anyway.

The rangers at Manatee have always been nice to me, none that I know of are divers
but they seem to be savvy as to what's going on. Of course they can't see what's going
on in the water, so it's up to us to police this.

[Kelly Jessop]

I recall seeing of couple people with snorkels back to the downstream sign at Cow,the only problem is they didn't have tanks. They used cylume sticks to light up all the air pockets,and used the snorkels for air pockets.

[BgDadddy]

A little off topic, but kind of funny.

A couple of buddies and me were diving Madison. We see some redneck (no offense, guys) who took a snorkel and duct taped 20 feet of PVC to it so he could check out the bottom of the basin.

We hung out for a few minutes so we could have a good laugh (and go down and get him once he passed out) but his duct taped connection didn't seem to work out too well (not enough tape) so he aborted after a couple of minutes.

We still talk about that one every time we get together.

[cmufieldhockey8]

These kind of shenanigans happen all the time at Vortex. Even the ow divers in there who got freaked out because they had a problem just told me "we'll do it right next time" despite my urgent words of caution. Some people you can't save, others you can. I tried.

[scububa]

A little off topic, but kind of funny.

A couple of buddies and me were diving Madison. We see some redneck (no offense, guys) who took a snorkel and duct taped 20 feet of PVC to it so he could check out the bottom of the basin.

We hung out for a few minutes so we could have a good laugh (and go down and get him once he passed out) but his duct taped connection didn't seem to work out too well (not enough tape) so he aborted after a couple of minutes.

We still talk about that one every time we get together.

Sorry, man, but your evaluation must be off. If he didn't know how to use enough duct tape, he COULD NOT have been a redneck!

[rkij]

What would I do if I saw snorkels 300 feet in? nothing, following them out and reading them the riot act will do nothing but help empower the attitude that cave divers are a-holes.

I agree what they did was stupid but would you rather do a body recovery?

[fixxervi6]

reading people the riot act won't save anyone, as I said you can't fix stupid.

I do not believe in protecting people from themselves, we as humans should have the free will to do stupid things and even die from them without the "protection" from others.

As certified divers they are aware of the ultimate risk of going into a cave (death), and SHOULD be aware of the icrease in risks of going into a cave untrained without proper gear. If they choose to ignore their education and/or their understanding of what water can do to you and die then oh well, Darwin has struck, just hope it strikes before they had a chance to breed.

I'd rather they live, or have a close call to teach them a lesson and live, chewing them out will do nothing but piss them off. Maybe following them out and TALKING civil to them might get a message through.

I may sound cold about it but its the truth, I'm far more concerned about access to sites instead of the life of some darwin canidate that successfully removed themselves from the gene pool, its not my job to protect them, or anyone elses, they make the choices themselves they are the ones that pay the greatest price.

If I came accross one of these tards that needed help, I would help them, death is bad even for those that play with it, but, if they manage to complete the cleaning of the gene pool on themselves, I won't shed a tear for them.

Its like feeling sorry for someone that put a bullet through their head, why feel sorry, they had the free choice to do, or not to do so, they chose, they paid - freedom.

I had a group of idiots follow me into orange grove, 3 of them, single tank, yolk, NO reels, NO LIGHTS - there comes a certain point that some people are so stuipd its impossible to feel sorry for them.

So no, I'd rather not do a body recovery, I'd rather they learn their lesson and live, but reading the riot act will not prevent a body recovery. And like someone else said, you better be carefull what you do because one of those retards may know a smart lawyer.

My main point - I believe it is wrong to protect people from themselves, you remove personal freedom, all you can do is educate someone as best you can and let evolution take care of the rest - reading the riot act, to me, is not successfull education.

[RN]

I may sound cold about it but its the truth, I'm far more concerned about access to sites instead of the life of some darwin canidate that successfully removed themselves from the gene pool, its not my job to protect them, or anyone elses, they make the choices themselves they are the ones that pay the greatest price.

You don't seem very concerned about it. Don't you recall the talk several months ago about closing land access to Devil's after a death occurred there? There are several cenotes in Mexico we just lost access to. Morrison was dynamited because of OW divers dying in there. Jackson Blue was closed for several years because of deaths in there. If you're so concerned about it then do something about it. Letting them be stupid and kill themselves does affect us because we can lose access because of them. Non cave divers don't know or care that the deaths were of non cave trained divers. All they know is someone dies there, so they shut us out completely. Reading them the riot act does not necessarily mean chewing them out. It means educating them on the stupidity of their actions. It means telling them about all the people that have died doing exactly what they were doing. It means encouraging them to get the proper training. If we all just sit around and let stupid be stupid, we're going to lose access to the few caves we do have access to. I don't want to see that happen. That's why I would abort my own dive to drag them out of the cave and have a talk with them. I don't care if they think I'm an a-hole after that or not. At least no one is going to have to recover the bodies that day.