Skipping Backmount?

[DogDiver]

In a seminar that Lamar had a few years ago at Hart, he said there were two reasons to go sidemount. 1) mission specific dives where sidemount is required and 2) for a lifestyle change to diving where all dives are sidemount. I started of using sidemount for mission specific dives and enjoyed it so much that I have gone to sidemount as a lifestyle change. There are many pros and cons to diving backmount vs sidemount and only your individual instructor is qualified to assist you in your choices.... safe diving and happy holidays...Ken

[skip]

I don’t know about you, but how many times have you seen a catfish silt up the bottom while running away?

why should they care? it's a lights out drill for them every day! and maybe the silt cloud obscures the vibrations that predators use to capture?

-skip

[SuPrBuGmAn]

What predators are capturing catfish in the caves? I was under the impression that they are pretty much the apex critter in the dark holes(of FL atleast).

[jmaddox]

What predators are capturing catfish in the caves? I was under the impression that they are pretty much the apex critter in the dark holes(of FL atleast).

Noodlers

[SuPrBuGmAn]

LOL

I know a couple holes with some BIG cats(up to 100lbs and better) that hunt out other smaller catfish species. Aside from the Flathead cats eating other cats, didn't think anything else was hunting the typical FL cave catfish we see

[JE]

What predators are capturing catfish in the caves? I was under the impression that they are pretty much the apex critter in the dark holes(of FL atleast).

Then, you may have never seen the Luraville Beavers chomping on a catfish inside their domain-! or the freshwater eels snacking on the 'endangered' anthropods along the passageways usually out of view-! But, they are there, & they are feasting-! Look for tell-tale signs, & you may spot them in action-!
Not trying to burst your bubbles......just saying I've seen it.
cheers & Holiday greetings as well.
*.*
Jack

[SuPrBuGmAn]

It was a simple question(I'm not questioning anyone's intelligence, just trying to further my own), I never heard of anything hunting catfish in the caves, apparently you haven't either. Beavers aren't cave dwelling creatures, we're talking about in the caves... and eels aren't hunting catfish either. Beavers are all over the FL springs, not just in Luraville by the way, they crap all over the platforms on the Mill Pond constantly.

If something is hunting catfish, I'll be the first to claim ignorance of it, and I'd like to hear about it. I think it'd be pretty interesting!

As far as I know, the only things hunting catfish in the caves, are other catfish.

[cwick]

Don't forget the elusive but ever present Anaerobosaurus. This clever creature has been known to eat anything that dares to enter the caves.

I saw an eposode of Wild Kingdom, when I was a kid, where Marlin Perkins encountered one, of course he let Jim go in to get him. Blinded the lights of the film crew they were able to escape. JIm only sustained minor injuries and Marlin was back on the boat smoking a cigar and drinking Cognac.

[marinediver]

Kind of the same thing as learning how to drive a stick shift before learning how to drive an automatic car. If you jump into driving with a stick and learn how to drive a stick proficiently, it might be a long and difficult transaction to master the art of driving an automatic car.

Then too, according to Zen and the Art of Cave Diving, if you have not felt cold, how can you appreciate hot? Before you can appreciate side mount, you must first experience back mount.

Maybe we should be made to learn how to dive the caves naked and blind, like the ingenuous animals of the cave, and carry the tanks with our bare hands. Only then can one truly become a certified cave animal. I don’t know about you, but how many times have you seen a catfish silt up the bottom while running away?

What the hell is this, and what are you smoking...

[Brian Kakuk]

I would strongly recommend against it. Although there are several situations where sidemount is the best, or even only, configuration to use, lately it seems to be the trend de jour. Saturday I saw several people in JB who don't have back problems and weren't going into any passage smaller than a train tunnel, and they were in sidemount. I'll bet it took them ten minutes to get their cylinders hooked in and all, when backmount would have been so much easier.

I say learn to cave dive in backmount, and then try other configurations. But that's just me.

We agree to disagree. I learned to cave dive in side mounts and have opted for this configuration for many reasons:

The first was financial. I could not afford the expensive wings, manifolds, bands and back plate associated with back mount configuration back then. Not as much of an issue today as “off-the-rack” side mount configurations are now nearly as expensive.

The second was geographic influence by British divers. Palmer had explored some of the caves here in side mount a few years before I began cave diving. His expeditions in side mount had a strong influence on my choices for configuration during that time. Palmer opted for this configuratin after seeing Wes Skiles and other Mole Crew divers configurations in the U.S.

The third was cave passage configuration. The caves here can have massive rooms, but often there are breakdown areas that limit penetration unless passed with side mounts.

Fourth and most importantly is independent cylinders. The use of truly independent gas supplies allows for a greater safety in my opinion. I do not consider back mounts to be redundant until AFTER a valve is turned, IF you have practiced the maneuver, and IF the cave configuration allows you to reach the valve in what would be a stressful situation to say the least, all the while losing gas during the evolution. If the diver strictly adheres to the rule of thirds the chance of the need to share gas in side mount is extremely remote.

As for training is side mount, the NSS-CDS, NACD and IANTD allow all levels of cave training by the student while in side mount as long as the instructor is also in this configuration. I no longer teach back mount in my courses as a matter of preference. I feel the separate cylinder configuration a safer configuration, making the diver much more independent. I do however ensure that students are exposed to air sharing situations in "mixed teams", meaning with back mounters during their training. The student should also be taught the operation of a manifold so they my lend assistance as necessary in mixed teams.

The student is not issued a Side Mount Diver certification after a course like this, as a true Side Mount Diver course requires very different skills, drills and experience. Rather they are simply diving the configuration as a cave diver, in standard cave passages.

If you have previously been certified as a cave diver in backmount, then most training agencies require at least 50 cave dives after completion of training before allowing you to take a Side Mount Diver course.

Safe diving,
Brian