Put the Gold Back at Devils

[wingman]

I am not trying to restart any controversies or belittle any decisions that have been made with regard to Ginnie Springs. I would like to suggest that the line beyond the Henkle restriction be put back as it was. The change from gold line to white line was not needed. The simple sign that is in place along with word of mouth is sufficient to prevent scooter traffic beyond the Henkle. What is required is a simple request to the cave community to conserve the back of the cave system by not scootering there. It is the resulting instructor conservation training (in all courses, especially the dpv course), agency support, peer pressure, and the desire of the cave community to act in a way that preserves the cave that will remove the scooters. Ginnie Springs Outdoors can also incorporate a no scootering beyond the Henkle policy into their signage elsewhere in the park.

After having dove and inspected the new line area this last week I made the following observations:

1. Kermantle gold line is much sturdier than nylon braid and given the flow beyond the Henkle and the placements on the rough limestone the probability of a line failure has been increased.
2. Also with regard to the point in 1.) Maintenance costs associated with the nylon braid have now increased as well.
3. A dive beyond the Henkle requires special preparation and is riskier just given the distance from the exit. When jumping from other lines onto the mainline in the back of the cave it is comforting to visually see the gold color of the line and the immediate information it conveys with regard to the exit.
4. Similarly, for new divers experiencing the Fools Rush/Henkle Bypass tunnel or the left jump out of the Berman Room tunnel to the end of the line it is very comforting to note the encounter with gold line in the Berman Room and at the end of the mainline. With the white braid the exit information is not immediately conveyed.
5. It was not the color of the line that had anything to do with the events that have resulted in the change. It is quite common to scooter on white line in the Devils system and at JB so color of the line is not a “no scootering signal.” It is sufficient to say, “In the interest of cave conservation please do not operate dpv’s beyond the Henkle restriction.” Every cave agency, at its heart, has cave conservancy and diver safety as primary missions and will be sure to support that policy.
6. Finally, who is it that really has the final say here? Sorry but it is not a Ginnie Springs Outdoors appointed line committee; it is the cave diving community.

Appropriate scootering should be/is a major emphasis area in dpv/cave training. In my DPV course (actually courses as I was lucky enough to go through dpv training with three different instructors) there was a discussion of appropriate passage within which to scooter but in the end it is a judgment call. At Ginnie I would suggest that the only appropriate scooter passages be the following:

1. Gold/Main line to the Henkle.
2. Big Room Bone Room Line.
3. Hill 400/Hillier/Beetle (just to the short tunnel that currently ends just upstream of the roller coaster…in fact I would suggest that the hill 400/Hiller/Beetle tunnel line be routed through that tunnel to end there and a jump be placed off that line at the current intersection to the rest of the Hiller tunnel that goes to the Double Domes line.)
4. The Roller Coaster line.
5. The Double Domes line.


In the interest of cave conservation there should be no scootering (or only by a special permit) beyond the Henkle or in any other tunnel including Sweet Surprise and Mainland. Again it is peer pressure that will enforce these rules and it will be the duty of cave divers to report violations. That sort of inappropriate behavior is in the same class as willfully carving initials or whatever into the limestone or clay.

So to keep scooters out of the back of Ginnie it was not necessary to remove gold line. All that had to be done was to encourage the cave community in the interest of conservation to forgoe scootering beyond the Henkel as a policy. The agencies and a majority of divers would readily agree and the peer pressure from that group would bring malcontents inline.

Please, let's put the gold line back from the Henkle to the end of the mainline.

Bill Huth

[Dsix36]

I don't scooter in caves yet and the Heinkle is a long way from the present for me to dive that far, but I still tend to agree with the above views.

[skip]

Wingman wrote: "Ginnie Springs Outdoors can also incorporate a no scootering beyond the Henkle policy into their signage elsewhere in the park."

Added cost to them? Why not a fund from the cave diving community to create and put in "No Scooters Beyond This Point" signs at the appropriate locations. Multilingual, pictographs, much like the Stop signs used now, but distinctively meaning "no scooters", maybe a diamond shape and different color?

-skip

[Kelly Jessop]

At Ginnie I would suggest that the only appropriate scooter passages be the following:

4. The Roller Coaster line.

I really don't think scooters are needed in this tunnel. It is a great short cut tunnel,but more appropriate for swimmers. If someone's scooter doesn't have the capacity to make their dive without going the longway around and avoiding the rollercoaster,then that scooter probably has no need to be in the cave.

[Daedalus]

I really don't think scooters are needed in this tunnel. It is a great short cut tunnel,but more appropriate for swimmers. If someone's scooter doesn't have the capacity to make their dive without going the longway around and avoiding the rollercoaster,then that scooter probably has no need to be in the cave.

The rollercoaster is so mangled I don't think it really matters at this late hour.

[wingman]

I really don't think scooters are needed in this tunnel. It is a great short cut tunnel,but more appropriate for swimmers. If someone's scooter doesn't have the capacity to make their dive without going the longway around and avoiding the rollercoaster,then that scooter probably has no need to be in the cave.

I sort of agree, the rollercoaster is a shortcut and cuts just a few minutes off the run to the back of the cave. Just before Thanksgiving Bryan and I stopped at the coat hanger (dogleg) on exit from a scooter dive to mainland and did a one two three go and i went the roller coaster and he went gold line. I beat him to the jump into the rollercoaster off goldline by about one minute (50 seconds). The rollercoaster is probably on the edge of what might be considered scooterable but i find that i can get through that area cleanly. The end of the tunnel where the concretions abound (devils marbles) has certainly been eroded by scooter prop and fin wash. The shortcut just buys more time on the dive and i think everyone could still do their dive without using that shortcut. It has been beat to death and looking at the marks it is not clear that the peponderance is either scooters or hands, fins, and stage bottles.

[Jordan]

I agree Bill, gold line is much more appropriate back there.

[Kelly Jessop]

I sort of agree, the rollercoaster is a shortcut and cuts just a few minutes off the run to the back of the cave. Just before Thanksgiving Bryan and I stopped at the coat hanger (dogleg) on exit from a scooter dive to mainland and did a one two three go and i went the roller coaster and he went gold line. I beat him to the jump into the rollercoaster off goldline by about one minute (50 seconds). The rollercoaster is probably on the edge of what might be considered scooterable but i find that i can get through that area cleanly. The end of the tunnel where the concretions abound (devils marbles) has certainly been eroded by scooter prop and fin wash. The shortcut just buys more time on the dive and i think everyone could still do their dive without using that shortcut. It has been beat to death and looking at the marks it is not clear that the peponderance is either scooters or hands, fins, and stage bottles.

Thanks for your comments and observations Bill.
Do people scooter the mud tunnel in LR? I have always scootered the long ways around.

[ARY]

I agree w/ wingman. Please lets have the gold back.

I have another thought to add. There are commonly used depot spots on the mainline, like Stage Rock, Main Land jump, and just before Henkle. Should we have permanent heavy duty loops there for staging the gear the wear on the line would be reduced. I don't know what others do but our team usually clips the gear into the line. I've seen people just pile it up in corners and mark the spot w/cookie, or just lay bottles on Stage Rock but i'm not sure if it is really secure and safe. I don't like teh idea of putting signs back there but the depot spots would be nice to have. Just my 2c

[Finaddict]

I agree with the majority of the original post. It should be up to the community to oversee signage/markings/education, etc. The suggestion that Ginnie Springs Outdoor become involved doesn't work because they don't need another issue to address for the cave diving community and (legally) they have no say in what occurs inside the cave system. They don't own it, they only provide one form of access that most choose to use.