Pinnacle Evolution 2 - poor fit? Suggestions?

[tmcdonal]

I bought a Pinnacle Evolution 2 at the beginning of Summer, but due to local temps being too warm, haven't taken it out diving until now. It was a bit of a cluster.

To back up a bit, when I was thinking about buying it, Edd at Cave Adventurers took my measurements. I later had someone else verify the measurements and then I called in the order to Edd. He sent the numbers to Pinnacle to pick the suit. Based on Pinnacle's sizing chart, I would have pegged me as an "ML", however they placed me in a "Lg Short".

I've owned two prior drysuits, but both seemed bulky and not at all streamlined. Neither had the mid-section foldover as Pinnacle and DUI uses. In fitting this with undergarments (Evolution Undergarment), if I cinch up the crotch strap completely, I am able to get the upper section to lie flat (folded over section almost touching the top of the thigh pockets). The legs seem a little baggy, but they look that way in pictures as well. The sides of the upper section , however, seemed to have a lot of extra material.

On dive #1, I was wearing double 95s and a partially filled O2 bottle (AL40) which was floating slightly. Upon hitting the lake, I found myself to be a bit buoyant. That struck me as odd as I've never been anywhere near buoyant with 95s and a drysuit. I got all the air out and descended. The dive was fine - went to 150', it was 60 degrees and I was warm enough.

However on the way up, I really had to struggle with my ascent. I had the exhaust wide open, but lots of air kept getting trapped. Several times I had to go vertical and I probably looked like I was having mini convulsions wiggling to get out every last bit of air. After I had dumped all I could from my drysuit and wing, I had to literally grab some rocks to weigh me down. (Deco was fun.) Came up after quite a lot of work.

Second dive I stayed shallower, dumped the deco bottle, and added ankle weights (never had to do that before). This one was much more controllable, but still lots of air getting trapped. I became very aware of a large vertical crease of material down the middle of my chest/stomach. I assume several of these folds are leading to my air trapping problems.

First off, I can't decide if this is a proper fit. The excess material around my chest/stomach doesn't give me the streamlined feel I was hoping for and I was pretty limited in my range of motion - reaching back to the valves was a struggle and practicing a little pull and glide along a wall didn't feel very efficient at all. Does anyone have any suggestions on getting this to lie flat in the water?

I'm going to try again with some Gaiters (again never had to use w/ previous drysuits) and maybe a stainless backplate for additional weight? I'm amazed at the added buoyancy - does that sound normal?

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

-Tom

[FW]

My first suggestion would be to talk to Edd.

[tmcdonal]

My first suggestion would be to talk to Edd.

Yes, that was going to be step #2. However I was hoping for suggestions on any adjustments I may have overlooked or comments from people who have experienced similar.

-Tom

[Jim Clark]

For the "technical" diver who maintains for the most part a horizontal belly down trim with the knees bent upward at a 30-90 degree angle, I feel that the suit should be a snug fit from the waist to the feet. Gaiters can alleviate the air trapping from the knee to the ankle, but if the foot area (boot or sock) is too large you can still have a problem.

From the waist to the shoulders, suit fitment should allow you to manipulate your tank valves and be able to reach everything you need to reach. The suit should do this by either using a stretch material or fitting less than snug in that area. Since your harness is strapped over your upper torso, looseness is less critical regarding air trapping in this area, but you need only enough room/stretch to maneuver in your harness and no more. I find that many of the exhaust valves which are located on the upper arm are rotated too far forward, ie the top of the bicep. I prefer my exhaust valve more toward the tricep or back area of the upper arm so when I'm horizontal face down with my arms extended to my front the valve is pointed directly upward. I adjust my valve so as I ascend in that position the valve will exhaust easily, no body contortions or other assistance required. You'll know the valve is too far toward if as you ascend in that manner you get a large suit bubble of trapped air along your upper arm even when the valve is adjusted to exhaust properly because the valve is below the air bubble.

Although you mentioned this is your third drysuit, you didn't say how much dry suit diving experience you have. This has some bearing as well. Good luck with it, when that suit fits properly it's a good one. And most folks will say the #1 thing about drysuit diving is proper fit.

[skip]

I had a buddy once who ordered the custom fit DUI TLS350 and when it came it was too long in the legs, too big in the socks, and just a bit larger around than he thought it should be. He was frustrated diving it, but muddled through for a few dives. He finally talked to the LDS where he ordered it and they called DUI to see what it would take to readjust it here and there. They said no charge at all, they would take it in a bit as needed; that sometimes the suits need a bit of readjustment.

Well, it turned out it needed more adjustment than they thought so they looked closer and discovered they had sent him someone else's suit by mistake. His suit went to the other customer, who had already complained about one too snug! The mix-up was resolved and my buddy was much happier with his new suit.

mistakes do happen. talk to edd. put it on so he can see you in it. measure the suit and compare to the measurements you sent in.

-skip

[OFG-1]

Well, if you like to eat pizza and drink beer, the answer is ismple. Gain a lot of weight. Then the suit will fit better. It worked for me!

[Bobbert]

I had the same problem with this suit, a medium did not fit, could not get it over my hips. I too sent in measurement after trying the medium, Pinnacle was kind enough to send a large short with no valves to try for fit, the upper body seem to fit in the chest but the arms were really big I felt, under the arm seems to have to much material, the legs were a bit on the bulky side also. They said they could take care of the arms and legs but in the end they only shorten them which I new would not work.

I tried to dive with the suit and once in the suit I could not reach my valves. I thought once horizontal that would change to my surprise it did not, I tried three dives in the suit and it was so bulky I couldn't put enough air in the suit to take the squeeze off.. It seems to get caught up in the folds. The material under the arms would get caught up
somewhere and limit my movement to reach my valves. It was a well built suit and Pinnacle backs the equipment well. I have see others who fit a stock suit and it looks and seems to work fine for them, for us who don't fit the stock suit, its a really loose fit. It was a shame I couldn't make it work, quality seem great. keep in mind that pinnacle can't do a custom fit to bad, If your a stock size or close Pinnacle is a nice suite.

I tried a suite from DUI at thier dog days at Manatee Springs, both a medium and a large short TLS 350 and either worked fine (stock size). I could reach all my valves with no loss of movement. I dove with and without weights, with waits worked a little better, extra weight might help, the air trapped by the extra material is another problem altogether. I feel your frustration. looks like a DUI for this diver.

[tmcdonal]

Thanks everyone for the comments here and PMs. Well, except OFG - I certainly don't need encouragement in *gaining* weight.

I've really looked this suit over and tried it on a bit. As best I can tell out of the water, the suit's 2x2 - too tall and too wide. I think the waist fold is opening up under water and along with the extra girth, I'm being squeezed as if I were in an oversized ziplock bag.

As for the other suggestions/comments:
-The boots are a perfect fit. I was lucky enough to try on a couple of pairs in Edd's shop and got that correctly.
-Along with the extra drysuit material and folds, I believe the undergarments are heavier - that would account for some of the extra buoyancy.

Bobbert - have to admit, there's some cold comfort in knowing someone else went though something identical.

One last bit that I though was curious... In Pinnacle's 06/07 catalog I was given, the sizing chart is different from what is now showing online. Under the paper catalog, this suit is too tall for me (which it is). However online, I just make the cut. (Can you say "Internet diver"?)

I'm going to call Edd tomorrow and see what options he suggests. On the bad side, I let it sit for 6 months after receipt before trying it out, but there's hope in Pinnacle's reputation for customer service. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

If all else fails, a DUI rally is local in a few months. As I've said often in diving - it's only money, we'll make more.

Thanks again everyone.

-Tom

[HappyHacker]

I have the same suit and I really like it except for the fold across the chest is a pain to deal with. I fold it over and my transpac holds it in place. The suit is MUCH stiffer than my previous TLS350 but it became much more flexible after several dives. It is much more buoyant than a TLS350. Edd encouraged me to get the medium tall but I opted for the medium because I wanted no excess material in length (medium goes to 5'10" and that's exactly what I am). It's very tight to get it over my big ass but I prefer that it's tight around my waist once it's on. Boots fit perfect and I no longer wear gaitors. I like being able to put a bit of air in my boots in certain situations.

Sounds to me like you have the wrong size but some of the other issues you mentioned you'll have regardless.

[tmcdonal]

Thought I'd post a follow-up on this. I've been talking/emailing Edd about once a week and just got a final answer. Since I took it in the water, the general reply from Pinnacle had been that I'm out of luck, but ultimately up to a manager to decide and he's been out of the country. Pinnacle offers a 30 day 'fit guarantee', but not once you take it in the water. I wasn't aware of it, but it came down to them having to draw the line somewhere. *Since* it had been so long, and *since* I had taken it in the water, that pushed the limit.

So, I now have it for sale: http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showthread.php?p=69051

I'm kicking myself on not trying it on immediately upon receipt, but can't go back in time. Looking for a positive out of this, Edd did offer me a deal on a replacement. Not sure what I'm going to do yet, but lesson learned on what should have been obvious - try all new purchases out immediately! I got a PM from someone in a similar situation, so hopefully someone else will stumble across this post and save some $$$ and grief as well.

-Tom