Seems a bit silly for ginnie to close the land to divers when they are making money by opening it to cave divers...though I suppose they could just open it to tubers, but you sign a waiver before you dive.... so Im not sure I see the problem here.
Last edited by UCFKnightDiver; 11-03-2008 at 03:48 PM.
You have got to be kidding..if it were cheaper that's the way it would be happening now.Originally Posted by guru caver
Nobody is doing anything wrong...
Ginnie may or may not be pissed
Worst case, Ginnie refuses to let any cave divers access their land...sooo people get boats and use the boat ramp (On SR 47) to dive Devil's. It would be cheaper than the pass anyway.
"With regard to cave diving, the great thing is to be carried where you could not have imagined you would ever be, and then to come back alive."
"Wilderness. The word itself is music." Abbey, Desert Solitaire
Andrew....thanks for your input. From one who is not inside the "seceret handshake club" there is way too much petty game playing here in North Florida...Ken
Post removed pending discussions
Last edited by aainslie; 11-03-2008 at 04:25 PM.
Andrew Ainslie
Almost extinct cave diver
It does happen now. And it is cheaper. By a lot. Just not quite as convenient. Most do it at night, as ginnie has been known to cut loose boats tied off on the river bottom... dont want anyone else to get a good idea...
I'll just venture a guess here, but I would imagine that there are a couple of concerns at work here. On the cave diver side, many local cave divers are not excited about a significant find being made in "their" cave - they may know about it, and the area may be pristine, but when it gets published, invariably lots more folks will find out, and the travel damage will increase significantly, unless there is a significant barrier, or "nerd gate." In addition, there may be parallel or subsequent exploration going on with or without the knowledge of Andrew, and they may be controlling the find so that they can do the exploration.
On the other hand there is the landowner, who i'm sure is not so concerned about exploration for the sake of exploration, but the collateral damage from exploration. They dont call Ginnie the "stroke pit" for nothing. A significant number of fatalities in the last few years, some good friends, some not, all for exploration. Some were prepared for this, some were not. The purists will say that this is the understood price for true exploration, and I would agree, but that is hard to swallow from a landowner's perspective when the body bags are rolling past the front gate.
I say kudos for Andrew for conducting exploration, and double Kudos for documenting it (I hope he surveyed it). A fair compromise might be failing to mention exactly how to get to the new area, unless it is just dead obvious, (which it wont be for most of the people who dive at Ginnie) but this is just a suggestion, and of course wont make the majority of pundits happy.
Jason
Last edited by rchrds; 11-03-2008 at 04:22 PM.
Bill was talking about being cheaper in a fuller, economic sense. The convenience of Ginnie's access makes me more than willing to pay their fee. However, that changes if arbitrary, fickle rule making becomes the order of the day.
Andrew Ainslie
Almost extinct cave diver
Don't the realize that the more stink they make for this issue, the more people will want to read what was "supposed" to be in the article, along with the desire to go and "see" what all the fuss is about?
Honestly people.
Cavediving was more fun when it wasn't so commercial.
Joe
Obviously people already know about the tunnel or have you forgotten the infamous plaque?
If people would just talk about things like this, map it, and make videos\pics and stop being secretive, no one else would care because then we could all know what is back there!
'I assure you, it is not jealousy'
Exactly!!!!
Mike Edmonston
NAUI Technical Instructor
Oxycheq Experimental Dive Team Test Pilot
US NAVY Submariner TM2/ss 1988 - 1996
Currently US ARMY Military Police NTM-A TSS-COSTALL Spin Boldak Afghanistan 2010 - ??
Instructor Trainer and NATO Advisor to Afghan National Police Force and Afghan Border Patrol
As Andrew said you are not factoring in all costs...you said it yourself, not quite as convenient. Maybe the opportunity cost of your time is valued at minimum wage but mine isn't and 95% the ginnie divers I know have above minimum wage time valuations as well. I have spent a bit of time at ginnie (day and night) and have hardly ever (maybe once) observed it being dove from the river over the last few years. Bill Huth
"With regard to cave diving, the great thing is to be carried where you could not have imagined you would ever be, and then to come back alive."
"Wilderness. The word itself is music." Abbey, Desert Solitaire
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