Beware:(

[cavediver256]

Leo, I can understand you being very upset about this situation, believe me !!! There may be other problems beyond their control at the moment. For one, the cave diving business has been very slow this year. Gas prices have slowed the flow of cave divers into N. FLA, (lets face it, we are all suffering from high gas prices. Hell my guess is that is the same reason Skybus Airlines went under) high water has also played a huge factor in the number of cave divers declining in the area. They are both cave instructors and rely on cave divers coming into the area for training and guided dives, so I could very easily see money being "tight" for the two of them at the moment. Maybe there are other factors playing into this as well, but these are two things that I know have everyone in cave country, that rely on cavedivers, feeling the crunch right now.

If I know the both of them, like I think I do, your money will be refunded as soon as they are financially able to make it happen. In the meantime, I wish you the best of luck with this, but then again you don't need it, they will make it right.
__________________

[Bill Rotella]

They have a legal obligation to either refund the money or to follow the terms of their contractual agreement with you. An advance deposit is held by the entity and booked as "unearned revenue" until the terms of the contractual agreement have been fullfilled. Your options are to sue in "Civil Court" and to report them to the Better Business Bureau. I personally would do both.

[lord1234]

They have a legal obligation to either refund the money or to follow the terms of their contractual agreement with you. An advance deposit is held by the entity and booked as "unearned revenue" until the terms of the contractual agreement have been fullfilled. Your options are to sue in "Civil Court" and to report them to the Better Business Bureau. I personally would do both.

Yea...but living up in boston, suing in Civil Court maybe difficult. I am unsure of the laws in FL, but in MA, both parties must appear...

--L

[BobK]

I think I've always payed for my dive classes in advance. But by in advance, I mean I show up for the first class, pay, then the class starts. I don't think I've ever had to send money prior to the start date.

[Dave]

Leo, I can understand you being very upset about this situation, believe me !!! There may be other problems beyond their control at the moment. For one, the cave diving business has been very slow this year. Gas prices have slowed the flow of cave divers into N. FLA, (lets face it, we are all suffering from high gas prices. Hell my guess is that is the same reason Skybus Airlines went under) high water has also played a huge factor in the number of cave divers declining in the area. They are both cave instructors and rely on cave divers coming into the area for training and guided dives, so I could very easily see money being "tight" for the two of them at the moment. Maybe there are other factors playing into this as well, but these are two things that I know have everyone in cave country, that rely on cavedivers, feeling the crunch right now.

If I know the both of them, like I think I do, your money will be refunded as soon as they are financially able to make it happen. In the meantime, I wish you the best of luck with this, but then again you don't need it, they will make it right.
__________________

Sorry TJ, but I disagree. This is a business, and as such should be run as a business.
Would you be happy if the company you worked for told you that you had to wait 3 months for your paycheck because things were "a little tight".
If you cant manage your creditors, you should consider closing the door. Its very sad when these things happen, but cash flow management is the killer of most failed business's.

[Puttzer]

I think I've always payed for my dive classes in advance. But by in advance, I mean I show up for the first class, pay, then the class starts. I don't think I've ever had to send money prior to the start date.

I too never paid in advance. Always when class began.

Is there any written documentation about this class agreement?

Wouldn't this discussion be better suited discussing means of payments, customary procedures for classes, and such and let the parties involved resolve their problem. Accusations on the forum prove nothing.

And what happened to our court system and ultimately the NACD and CDS?
If these complaints are valid, that's where the student should be. If he feels he too far away, maybe he should have thought about that before he laid down X$ before his class without any written agreement.

[lord1234]

I called the training director of the CDS. He told me they do not get involved in their instructors financials.

[RHolmesJr]

Okay, we can all throw stones but I have had enough. They have been crucified enough, both here as well as TDS (especially). None of you people know what the hell is going on with them so give it a "ffing" rest. We can all speculate about what the hell is going on but none of us are walking in their shoes. I know this, THEY ARE NOT THIEVES, so quit treating them like they are. Of all the instruction that I have received in diving, none has been more thorough than hers. I am disgusted by the freaking politics in cave diving! These people have devoted their lives as well as their families well being into making this a safer sport for all of us. I think some idiot posted on TDS about feeling weird about taking instruction from a " chain smoker " That idiot must have never dived with them because they both have the consumption rate of a CORPSE! Please guys, these people have made a more positive impact on our community than most of us could ever dream of only because they had the nuts to do so! I know this, I am a better diver because they EXIST! I am proud to know them and consider them my mentors! My daddy always said opinions are like "A-holes" and there sure are alot of "A-holes" lurking around here!

[lord1234]

Okay, we can all throw stones but I have had enough. They have been crucified enough, both here as well as TDS (especially). None of you people know what the hell is going on with them so give it a "ffing" rest. We can all speculate about what the hell is going on but none of us are walking in their shoes. I know this, THEY ARE NOT THIEVES, so quit treating them like they are. Of all the instruction that I have received in diving, none has been more thorough than hers. I am disgusted by the freaking politics in cave diving! These people have devoted their lives as well as their families well being into making this a safer sport for all of us. I think some idiot posted on TDS about feeling weird about taking instruction from a " chain smoker " That idiot must have never dived with them because they both have the consumption rate of a CORPSE! Please guys, these people have made a more positive impact on our community than most of us could ever dream of only because they had the nuts to do so! I know this, I am a better diver because they EXIST! I am proud to know them and consider them my mentors! My daddy always said opinions are like "A-holes" and there sure are alot of "A-holes" lurking around here!

Hi,
I know that they have made a positive impact on cave diving. Never have I questioned their instruction or their history of rescuing people from caves, training people, etc. What I have brought into question is their financials. I have not called them thieves but, obviously by now, they know about this and the TDS post. You would think if they had something to say on their own behalf to disprove what has been said, they would have come online and said something.

--L

[RHolmesJr]

Hi,
I know that they have made a positive impact on cave diving. Never have I questioned their instruction or their history of rescuing people from caves, training people, etc. What I have brought into question is their financials. I have not called them thieves but, obviously by now, they know about this and the TDS post. You would think if they had something to say on their own behalf to disprove what has been said, they would have come online and said something.

--L

Well Leo I am assuming they have more class than to discuss their personal matters over an internet forum. In your origional post you said that you wanted to spark some sort of reaction, well you have suceeded sir. I did not want to post anything out of fear of adding to the flames that I want to see die. None of this is any of my business so I hope it all works out for everybody.