Some questions on the basics

[Gary]

i think that facts of damage should "stay in a cave" and not on a public forum. For cyberdivers from authorities internet talks is the primary source of information on a subject.

That's been tried for years and years. It doesn't work.

If you see damage report it. If you see someone involved in cave damage report them. If you see instructors teaching poorly report them.To the agencies, to the park staff - to 911 if you have to.

There are now many cave agencies where there were once only a few and some could care less what happens to the caves and how many of their instructors and students are helping damage them.

The agencies have no way to correct what they never hear about and little reason to address the problems caused by other agencies when no one is making any complaints.

[OFG-1]

Some questions on the basics???

OK, basically since you are new, inkdiver, just come to these simple conclusions -

1 - Some people are just slobs. Some people are stupid. Some people are stupid slobs. Their mothers just didn't dope slap them enough for not cleaning up after themselves.

2 - Some people don't know jack about cave etiquette. Pity these morons, and those who choose to dive with them.

3 - Some people cant keep from banging into or bashing against the insides of caves. There are klutzes everywhere you look, why should the caves be any different.

4 - Ginnie Springs has a strict non discrimination policy, they accept money equally from everybody. As much as they can get. It is a business, and profit is not a 4 letter word. Don't get yourself into a frenzy over it, if you dont like it just go and dive somewhere else.

and 5 - Every time someone sees a skid mark somewhere and posts it on this or any other fourm, we get pages of the same old crap about how the sport has gone to hell in a bucket, the training agencies are a bunch of money grubbing whores, there are crappy instructors that can't teach their students anything, there are crappy divers that cant control themselves, and new divers may be the root of all of this evil. And then the world keeps turning until someone else sees another skid mark, and we do it all over again.

With that said, here is my basic advise---

DONT leave your trash anywhere, try to pick up every other a-holes trash if you can.

Let the people that are exiting out of the damn cave.

Try your best not to bump into anything, although you will. I will, everyone will sooner or later.

There is not one place that humans have walked, crawled, skidded, climbed, crapped, biked, sat, stood, or danced the fandango that does not show some sign of them being there. Either get over it, or stay home and live in your closet.

Try your best not to leave any signs that you have been anywhere.

Finally, and most important, whatever you do, don't ever believe that you cant cack yourself in a cave. You can.

ps - Dont cack yourself in a cave.

[stairman]

well OFG-1 summed that up pretty good.As for me?If I see someone doing something really stupid,I will confront them if I can identify them,and depending on the severity,post their name on this forum.If they beat me up Ill post that too.Idiots need to be held accountable.

[temrich]

As OFG-1 posted, everyone is going to make mistakes. Even you and me. I am the first to agree with talking to the party in the wrong...dont get me wrong. I had a team enter the eye on my line, while I was on deco, without asking if I was going to pull it. I had a talk with them and they agreed that they were in the wrong. I also agree, wholeheartedly, with cave conservation. Where I part ways with this thread is when we start telling on eachother. Are we in grade school? I am a teacher and nothing pis&es me off more than a kid telling on someone else. If it is a blatant destruction of the cave, hang 'em high, but if it is a beginners mistake, or an accident, help that person learn from it. Hope not to many get mad at me from this and ostracize me from the family.

[stairman]

I wasent talking about a mistake and Im not mad at anyone for giving their opinion.Am I in grade school?no comment.Would I rat some idiot who has no buisness in a cave?you damn right.What they done thats that bad depends on what it is.If they need to be held accountable.they should be.

[Line Squirrel]

I had a team enter the eye on my line, while I was on deco, without asking if I was going to pull it. I had a talk with them and they agreed that they were in the wrong.

I'm curious. You said another team entered on your line without asking if you were going to pull it, can you elaborate please?

Did they leave a marker on your reel or line expecting you to leave your reel for them on exit?

How do you know they weren't just doing a visual?

It ain't text book, but crazy as that may sound, is does happen from time to time.

[chimie007]

Again, as I said, I'm new to this and don't want to complain. These are just some obesrvations and questions for a new guy. As noted previously, I've met lots of great people in the cave community who have been really helpful and supportive!!

Don, you brought up some good points. There was a good thread a few months ago dealing with something related to this. Some good discussion about exiting team priority. Not saying it applies to your case.

http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28556

[stairman]

ok,ok after a pm looking back I would not rat someone out for leaving condoms in the bathhouse,or failure to yield to an exiting team.The scooter antics is the grey area.Silting out a passage for others because of horseplay is the danger .

[temrich]

ok,ok after a pm looking back I would not rat someone out for leaving condoms in the bathhouse,or failure to yield to an exiting team.The scooter antics is the grey area.Silting out a passage for others because of horseplay is the danger .

Agreed on the scooter and silting. Guess I miss understood your original comment, and I was not calling you a school boy. Sorry if you took it that way.

As for the team entering, there was no marker on my reel. Yes, they could have been doing a visual, but after talking with them, they did say they were using my reel on the way in. I had another team ask to use my line and they would leave a marker on it. Being a fairly new cave diver, I thought that was standard. Now that I have a few more dives, I realize that visual jumps are common in Devils.