So who left fresh sliced cave loaf in the roller coaster?

[jpdiver]

I thought there was also an "understood" agreement not to scooter certain tunnels at Ginnie. The Roller coaster being one of them along with beyond the Hinkel, double lines etc.

There is no need to scooter this tunnel. The flow is not that bad. Sometimes coming back from a scooter dive further back, I will go through the Roller coaster on the way out but I carry the scooter and drift out. This is a tunnel to go slowly and enjoy.

[Cave Ranger]

I dunno man. None of this is going to get any better. It's not like the cave will heal itself in our life times.
It seems that no matter where we humans end up going we trash the place. Imagine what Mars is going to look like if we ever colonize it.
IMHO If you haven't swam the cave first, you shouldn't scooter it. If you can't control the scooter, you shouldn't be using one. I don't personally like scooters. They are too noisy and silence is one of the appeals of Cave diving.
Like "Trailer Trash" let's add the word "Scooter Trash" to the lexicon. Let the shoe fit whomever it may.

[Gary]

I have no problem with taking a scooter in the Roller Coaster or any other particular passage. I find scooters useful for minimizing cave damage, contact and even silting - when used with concern for the cave.

As with every other passage and style of cave diving concern for the cave that recognizing that one is silting is a warning that it is time to take additional care, slow down or turn back because it is beyond your skill. No one should need to get to the point where they are crawling belly deep in mud heading up to the ice room (as has clearly occured there) to figure out they are way past their limit.

Scooters certainly should be treated with even more concern because of the immense damage they can do in a short amount of time. Recognizing ahead of time that a lack of sufficient control and skill was absent was clearly ignored here by the perpetrator.

Scootering or swimming the diver clearly has no concern for the cave. Who was this guy's instructor?

[RN]

What is the DPV rule?

No scootering Devil's without showing your scooter card at the desk first and getting DPV written on your wrist band and vehicle sign.

I'll be a while before I ever scooter Devil's...if ever. I've got a couple of good mentors and don't see the point in paying for a card to scooter one cave.

[divindoc]

I have done 2 swim dives up the Roller Coaster over the past two days and saw no "NEW" damage. Gary, where on the coaster did you see damage?

Yesterday I did have occasion to see two divers actually laying on the cave floor in the mud at the 700 foot marker with their Gavins.

Jim, any reasonable explaination for this, or were they too plum tuckered-out to continue?

I hope you Bungeed their worthless asses to the floor!

[Jim Wyatt]

Jim, any reasonable explaination for this, or were they too plum tuckered-out to continue?

I hope you Bungeed their worthless asses to the floor!

They were possibly in learning mode....At least two of them were diving RB-80's, maybe all 3. Perhaps they were learning to ride scooters, or how to crawl out of a cave on a rebreather.

We saw them exit the Ear while on deco and then before we finished our deco saw them go back in.

The vis from the 700 foot marker to the Hill 400 line area was down to maybe 30 feet because of them.

Perhaps they went up the roller coaster.....

[RAL]

They were possibly in learning mode....At least two of them were diving RB-80's, maybe all 3. Perhaps they were learning to ride scooters, or how to crawl out of a cave on a rebreather.

We saw them exit the Ear while on deco and then before we finished our deco saw them go back in.

The vis from the 700 foot marker to the Hill 400 line area was down to maybe 30 feet because of them.

Perhaps they went up the roller coaster.....

Oh.............. DIR. It must be OK.

RAL

[Burke]

They were possibly in learning mode....At least two of them were diving RB-80's, maybe all 3. Perhaps they were learning to ride scooters, or how to crawl out of a cave on a rebreather.

We saw them exit the Ear while on deco and then before we finished our deco saw them go back in.

The vis from the 700 foot marker to the Hill 400 line area was down to maybe 30 feet because of them.

Perhaps they went up the roller coaster.....

I think I saw these same divers over the weekend. We were coasting back down the mainline around the Hill 400 jump moving slow to check out some of the smaller SM tunnels, not going in, just looking. Their entire team stopped directly above us and blocked our movement. Not a big deal, but it seemed kinda weird. Then they seem to have difficulty getting oriented and moving again. One diver got his light cord caught around a rock just as he hit the throttle. I'm surprise he didn't rip his light cord out of the canister. Anyway as I said it wasn't a problem for us, but they seemed a little task loaded.

[MengTze]

'What happens in the cave, stays in the cave' You then walk out head held high and hope no one talks.......

(what I mean is that I have several times seen divers of the same larger group do things in the caves they whole hardheartedly claim not being part of their capabilities due to their very high standards of training - flutter kicks, loss of buoyancy and trim, sheered off tank valves, kneeling down, blinding other divers, not allowing exiting teams to exit unencumbered, bad tie offs, loss of buddy/ temporary solo diving).

[Kaneo]

sooooooooo much whining