Taking Care of the Kids

[curtschu]

We have had this thread many times over the last couple of years. One thing is for sure Have a Will and an advanced directive.
If you are fortunate enough to work for a company that provides a group life policy, you know the open enrollment crap you do every year. They usually (caver) edit Cover just about anything except Suicide. Additionally they usually have a suppliment at 2x annual salary with no underwriting. I just went through this at work and I asked at the meeting about scuba limits. There were none unless I wanted more that $100000 of suppliment coverage.
So as it stands I'm worth more dead than alive..... But don't tell anyone

[BabyDuck]

i hear ya, rh, but i dive wet. i'm more of mike's 'live for the now' viewpoint, though.

curt, i do have the will, an advanced directive, & a trust for the boy. good point, though - on my gear box is a tag with what to do & who to call in an emergency, and it tells folks to look in my glove compartment for my adv dir.

does everyone discuss who to call / what to do with new buddies?

[WEPIV]

Although I've been diving off and on for decades I only started cave diving four years ago.
My wife was not keen on this as she had grown up in Gainesville and had heard about the perils of cave diving her whole life. One of the things she insisted on -- and that I was planning on doing anyway -- was to get life insurance.
I got a very nice policy through the Lincoln Benefit Life Company that had a section about scuba diving but did not go into detailed questions about technical diving, (at least not when I got this policy four years ago).
I also set out to get as much training and experience as I could, (which I continue to do), which also makes me a safer more competent diver.
This is what individuals should do who have others that look to them for support; like family members.

[bigdave]

Some of these sentiments are admirable, but let's keep in mind that the long term financial needs of survivors can easily run well into six figures when there are minor children.

I can't see any of the organizations being able to generate anywhere near this kind of money.

The best value would be if the organizations could sponsor a group insurance policy that would cover cave diving. Or the organizations could provide a list of life insurance without exclusions, or perhaps less expensive rider clauses.

In daily life you can easily be killed through no fault of your own. Diving and cave diving is no different. If your death will cause a financial hardship for your family, it is your responsibility to plan for that however unlikely it may seem....

My $.02 worth....

David

[mfascuba]

I disclosed my cave diving to my insurance carrier when I took out my policies in 2002. The agent said that there was no exclusion, and because it had been disclosed by me, the policies were valid without issues. He also said that after two years they could no "reinterpret" their exclusions or my disclosures to deny coverage, so I'm safe, and so is my family.

Mark

[cavediver256]

I disclosed my cave diving to my insurance carrier when I took out my policies in 2002. The agent said that there was no exclusion, and because it had been disclosed by me, the policies were valid without issues. He also said that after two years they could no "reinterpret" their exclusions or my disclosures to deny coverage, so I'm safe, and so is my family.

Mark

I had just the opposite experience about 3 or 4 years ago....I was talking with an agent about supplemental life insurance, and like a dummy I asked about cave diving, at that time there was no exclusion for it listed, but when the same agent came around a year later, there was a specific exclusion for cave diving/cave exploration.....go figure

[fpsndiver]

We recently had a new life insurance policy come up at work, and as an incentive to get people to sign up, there was a no questions asked for anyone signing up in the first month it was offered. I jumped on the opportunity, and after reading all their fine print, there was no "Cave Diving" or "Scuba Diving" disclaimer. I signed up for it. However, I'm sure if I would have sat through their normal questionaire, that the agent would have stricken me or jacked up the rates.

There was a insurance guy up here in North Carolina that actually told me that he would refuse to insure anyone who ever went scuba diving below 100 feet. Most of the dives here in my neck of the woods are at about 110-125fsw...so I got banned by his company.

You know, of all the stupid stuff people do to endanger their lives....driving drunk, driving to work, driving for a living, playing golf near thunderstorms, swimming, waterskiing, etc. it still boggles the mind that trained divers are considered an "unacceptable risk" to insurers. Last I checked, there weren't a whole lot of divers getting waxed every year, but there sure were a lot of golfers wearing goofy pants and hats getting struck by lightning out on the back 9.....

On par here, it might be nice to get one of the sanctioning bodies, or both together to attempt to get some group rate from an insurance company that would not penalize you for the "cave diving" hobby....but it would probably be hard to find a company to do that, especially when EVERYONE in the group partakes of what these companies perceive to be sooooooo dangerous.

[bigdave]

I don't recall seeing scuba exclusions in any AD&D (Accidental Death & Dismemberment) policy. AD&D is pretty cheap, readily available through lots of organizations (such as employers, credit unions, etc.). Most cave diving deaths are accidental, not medical. Could be a good way to go, or at least supplement your estate.

David

[aainslie]

Let's turn this around.

It would be useful if the NACD or the CDS could work with a major insurer to convince them that cave diving has low enough mortality stats to not warrant an exclusion clause. As an incentive to that insurer, NACD or CDS could advertise their product on the organisation's website as an "official" insurer.

This would help people to do the planning. Which, I have to agree, is the individual's duty. It's nuts for us to collectively self-insure. Especially since we all have different needs. Someone with a $1 million mortage who dies uninsured with 3 kids has different needs to someone with no mortgage and only a spouse. How do we decide who gets what?

This is the whole reason insurance companies exist. It's up to each individual to get the coverage THEY need to leave their dependents financially stable.

And I fully agree that anyone who hasn't done that has no right to be in the water. It's incredibly irresponsible to leave your dependents floundering because of your hobbies.

[Line Squirrel]

A side note - last I remember hearing, if they specifically ask you about SCUBA and you lie and they find out about it, your contract with them will be null & void. Even if you die doing something non diving related so folks, please keep that in mind.