Things we can do to reduce damage to the caves

[Gary]

As far as required training to reduce damage to the caves most thought that such efforts would be counter productive and ineffective. But what about other options? Voluntary training and more effective buddy help?

Are there any continued education courses available to cave divers? Nothing required but how about just some expanded training opportunities divers can take as they are interested?

Surely every topic from the cave courses can be expanded on. 8 day Cave training + DPV + stage + sidemount obviously doesn't cover everything there is to know.

Turning cave diving agencies into a PADI style specialty card manufacturing business would be somewhat distasteful but if it produces a number of interesting courses that provides voluntary continuing education for cave divers, promotes cave preservation and reduces impact on the caves... well there could be worse things.

Surely almost any topic from the cave course or manuals there are probably numerous instructors out there with a number of areas they are particularly competent in and have a lot more to share then what is required for the cave card.

Emergency procedures?
Cave formation?
How about a course in reducing cave impact?

I mean how many people are taking a sidemount course because they have run out of other courses offered and don't know what else to take to further their dive education? Probably half the people taking it would choose another topic if several other choices were offered.

What would you choose instead of sidemount or as your next course?

[Mike Edmonston]

As far as required training to reduce damage to the caves most thought that such efforts would be counter productive and ineffective. But what about other options? Voluntary training and more effective buddy help?

Yes, having a buddy (maybe different buddies) give some pointers could help.

Are there any continued education courses available to cave divers? Nothing required but how about just some expanded training opportunities divers can take as they are interested?

I think that workshops put on by the NACD and the CDS would be the way to go, along with the cave cleanups.

Surely every topic from the cave courses can be expanded on. 8 day Cave training + DPV + stage + sidemount obviously doesn't cover everything there is to know.

No argument from me there

Turning cave diving agencies into a PADI style specialty card manufacturing business would be somewhat distasteful but if it produces a number of interesting courses that provides voluntary continuing education for cave divers, promotes cave preservation and reduces impact on the caves... well there could be worse things.

Never going to happen, I thought you wanted the bad divers out of the caves???

Surely almost any topic from the cave course or manuals there are probably numerous instructors out there with a number of areas they are particularly competent in and have a lot more to share then what is required for the cave card.

I don't know of a single instructor that JUST teaches what's in the book. The book is a miniscule part of the course. The topics get covered.

Emergency procedures?
Cave formation?
How about a course in reducing cave impact?

All topics covered in Cavern, then repeated through full.

I mean how many people are taking a sidemount course because they have run out of other courses offered and don't know what else to take to further their dive education?

Uh, Gary, did you take a Nitrox course because you ran out of air to breathe? or did you just want another card?

Probably half the people taking it would choose another topic if several other choices were offered.

ugh!.....

For the Umpteenth time, Just because we dive sidemount, does not mean that we are going to stuff ourselves in a rabbit hole and start excavating!!!!

I wrote a LONG description of the benefits of sidemount a while back so I'm not going to get into it again.

Briefly...
Sidemount is MUCH better for travel (less weight), redundency (Independant doubles with valves in FRONT of you), and really the only way to go cave diving if you're in a country that doesn't readily have access to doubles.

Now seriously Gary, Are you trolling on the sidemount issue?

I dive sidemount because I need to.


If I had to choose another course to further my diving career, it would have to be "PADI Internet Dive Chat" and then move up to "Advanced Internet Dive chat with DSL"

[Puttzer]

How about the NACD or CDS setting up lectures at their annual meetings on how to protect our caves.

They could also set up in water classes for those interested and at a profit if so inclined. But I would think this would be a public service to offer for free.

If $ or interest can be generated, the first organization to act will get the most rewards (financial and thanks) from the cave diving community.

[defunct]

Let's setup an organization that is focused on underwater cave conservation!! That'd be a first!!

Seriously guys, have you ever been to one of the conferences put on by the NACD or the CDS? They do offer lectures on conservation projects along with the exploration stuff.

Gary, I have an idea... why don't you volunteer for the NACD or the CDS to do a conservation lecture and tell us the best ways to conserve the caves? Might as well direct all that keyboard energy...

[Wizard]

Amen!

[Kelly Jessop]

They could also set up in water classes for those interested and at a profit if so inclined. But I would think this would be a public service to offer for free.

.

Padi has a course called peek performance bouyancy,which many would say it is another card,but it is designed to fine tune a newer OW diver's bouyancy. Something I've always wished was done at the CDF social,in addition to having a scooter race,set up an obstacle course like is done in the Padi PPB,and give points to who negotiates the obstacles the best. Everyone can participate,not just someone with a DPV. Personally when I go through the peanut tunnel at Peacock I make it point of going through the entire tunnel without making any physical contact,now it has become a personal game.

[mgersch]

If I had to choose another course to further my diving career, it would have to be "PADI Internet Dive Chat" and then move up to "Advanced Internet Dive chat with DSL"

Damn that's funny!!!

Although seriously this should be an NACD course series
Intro to Internet Cave Chat -(limited to 1 short post a day)
Appretice Cave Chat -(post twice a day but only 1/6th of a page each time)
Full Cave Chat

[WEPIV]

Kelly wrote:
"Personally when I go through the peanut tunnel at Peacock I make (a) point of going through the entire tunnel without making any physical contact, now it has become a personal game...."

I like playing that game as well ... in other places too like the Harper Tunnel.

[Gary]

The "peek performance buoyancy" course is a perfect example. If someone has an interest in improving their buoyancy and technique in the cave should they:

a) work on it on their own or with a buddy
b) wait until the next CDS or NACD conference and (maybe) talk about it
c) pay a guide or instructor full price and explain what you would like to work on
d) sign up for a 1 day course with 4 other people with similar interest with an instructor who teaches this and split the cost with the other students

Now, if someone's answer is (d) the only problem is that no one currently offers such a program

Why doesn't someone offer such a course?

I mean it's one thing to say no one wants to be forced to work on skills - but another thing entirely to make it harder on someone who wants to.

Also not everyone wants to wait 6-12 months for the next convention and not everything can be taught in an auditorium.

[MengTze]

Controversy.............

Make a course like fundamentals a pre-req for any cave\cavern course and most of your problems would be solved...?