Disadvantages to sidemount?

[aainslie]

They were an older couple (late 40s-early 50s)

Careful there Raphael, some of us are sensitive to age comments!!!

[defunct]

They were an older couple (late 40s-early 50s)

Careful there Raphael, some of us are sensitive to age comments!!!

Don't worry, it will be edited soon enough now that you said you're sensitive to it...

[chimie007]

They were an older couple (late 40s-early 50s)

Careful there Raphael, some of us are sensitive to age comments!!!

Well then.. I'm sorry Andrew. I didn't want to hurt your feelings Actually they were more in their mid-fifties now that I think about it.

[FW]

Well then.. I'm sorry Andrew. I didn't want to hurt your feelings Actually they were more in their mid-fifties now that I think about it.

Keep it up "kid"! Mid 50s isn't old

My father still dives, and he is in his late 80s.

[RescueTechDiver]

I did my cave course in SM with Brian Kakuk

As for a disadvantage to sm you have to buy two press gauges!

[Brian Kakuk]

Learning to cave dive in side mounts is no more difficult than learning in back mounts. MANY British divers started in side mount, although in the beginning, good trim was not really an issue in the cold muddy caves of Europe.

My first few years of cave dives were in side mount and now all of my students from Intro (if they are going through to full cave) are now trained while in side mount configuration. I no longer teach back mount after intro, and I do not teach back mounted doubles for any course. Back mounted rebreathers are the only exception.

There are two reasons I no longer teach back mount for cave diving. The first is that I do not feel that manifold doubles are truly redundant. They are not redundant until AFTER a valve is closed, IF it can be closed when it needs to be, and as fast as it needs to be, IF the diver knows which valve to actually close to solve the problem (without being able to see the casualty).

Independant cylinders are truly redundant. If a diver sticks by the 3rds rule or better, then they will never be without enough gas to get back to the entrance/deco even if they lose one entire side of the rig.

The second is that I feel that side mounts do have less impact on the cave IF the divers are diving in large cave (where most beginning cave divers usually dive). If a side mount diver goes into side mount passage, then he will obviously have more inpact on the cave as that is the nature of side mount caves.

From a safety standpoint, the valves and 1st stages are protected under the divers arms and the divers body would actually hit the cave before the valve/regulator would. Even though statistically the deaths or near misses from manifold impacts are low (read Sheck Exley's Caverns Measureless to Man, about the dive to the back of Tunnel De Atlantida in the Canary Islands), it still gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing my valves are protected and right where I can see them if something WERE to go wrong. It also makes me feel good knowing I can throttle the valve and make use of ALL the gas in the tank even if there were a burst HP hose, or a massive regulator free flow. Not a very efficient option with back mounts.

There are some differences in training:
1. Mixed teams (side mount/back mount) gas sharing and planning. Side mounters are taught how to deal with manifold emergencies for thier prospective dive partners as well as valve emergencies with other side mounters.
3. Gear configuration to accomodate gas sharing (yes it can be done in side mounts just as easy as back mounts).
4. Gas monitoring of two separate gas sources - for safety and trim
5. Valve throttling drills for simulated burst HP hose/Regulator free flow

I find that my students find thier trim FASTER in side mounts than in backmounts...especially if in a drysuit, but also wet. These students are not certified as Side Mount Divers after the full cave course. Side Mount Diver is a different course all together, where divers are taught much more independent thinking on gas planning, gear configuration, cylinder manipulation and confined space techniques.

If you have a good instructor who knows the rigs, they can keep the student from having to go through all of the constant tweeking that has been mentioned in this thread. I know many good side mounters who have not tweeked in years.

Students can leave the full cave course with great trim, great technique and a safe configuration after completeing their training while in a side mount configuration. It has been done many times.

As for any negatives for side mount, all of the issues that I have read in this thread can be dealt with in a real side mount course. It's all about good training and proper configuration from the beginning, same as any diving activity. If beginning scuba divers just decided to learn to do it on thier own without proper training, well then I guess there would be a lot of tweeking involved along the way, if they survived long enough.


That's my (very opinionated) story and I'm stickin to it.

[Mike Edmonston]

That's my (very opinionated) story and I'm stickin to it.

Hi Brian,

Did you connect Dan's and Ralph's yet? looking forward to coming over to your ponds soon. Are you gonna be at DEMA?

See you soon

[Brian Kakuk]

Hi Mike,
Hope you get a chance to visit. Nope, no connection to Dan's and Ralph's yet, but I've added about 2,000 feet to Ralphs and about 6,000 to Dans since you were here. Amazing. According to Fred's survey, the ends of the Dans/Ralph's lines are about 300 feet apart...hopefully closer since I put in 400 feet on the end of the line Ralph's line two weeks ago. It's hard to post trip or exploration reports from here without making it seem like advertising on this forum.

Sorry but I won't be able to attend DEMA this year. Will miss seeing all the N. Florida crowd, but will be busy here with reseach diving over.

Safe diving,
Brian

[Mike Edmonston]

Hi Mike,
Hope you get a chance to visit. Nope, no connection to Dan's and Ralph's yet, but I've added about 2,000 feet to Ralphs and about 6,000 to Dans since you were here. Amazing. According to Fred's survey, the ends of the Dans/Ralph's lines are about 300 feet apart...hopefully closer since I put in 400 feet on the end of the line Ralph's line two weeks ago. It's hard to post trip or exploration reports from here without making it seem like advertising on this forum.

Sorry but I won't be able to attend DEMA this year. Will miss seeing all the N. Florida crowd, but will be busy here with reseach diving over.

Safe diving,
Brian

Roger that,

Bravo Zulu my friend. I'll see you soon.

Be safe.

[Line Squirrel]

Ralph's Cave is hands down the most beautiful cave I have ever seen, no question about it...Dan's is a close second. If you ever connect the two, do it from Ralph's side so you keep the name

How ironic that a cave with such a mundane (spelling?) name be so beautiful.