Running primary at Little River...or not

[crawford]

How common is it for folks to not run a primary at places like Little River. I always run a primary, and always will. But noticed several folks not running them recently when diving there. Is this common?

I've seen the arguments for running a primary vs. not in Devils Ear, for example (very short distance, always flow, dangerous to have too many lines right there), but Little River is quite a stretch to be not running a line. Just curious how common this is not being a NFL local.

[aw]

Hmm. . . I'll touch this one.

Since this is a public forum, the hard core rule is to always run a primary reel for your team, or have a prearranged agreement with another team. PERIOD.

Having said that . . it's kind of like the Judgement Day scenario. Every person will have to give an account for his actions in life. If you have to give an account (as opposed to being strictly judged by a hard and fast rule without given a chance to reply), then perhaps there are extenuating circumstances that may warrant the judge being understanding in a particular circumstance.

Now, if YOU feel it's a long ways to the permanent line in Little River, then you've no extenuating circumstances/justification not to run a reel. Another diver, on the other hand, may have a justification.

You're responsible for yourself and your team. Complacency can get you killed. This is a risk-assessment sport. Your level of acceptable risk may not be someone else's. We all have to answer to the Grim Reaper. Hopefully, you and they will have a justification for doing what you do.

In all honesty . . don't do what everyone else does. If you ask the question about a reel, you need to run a reel. If you feel you have justification later on as your experience increases, then hopefully your justification will pass the grim reaper's test.

I know I did not answer your question. And I intentionally did not.

[chimie007]

Hmm. . . I'll touch this one.

Since this is a public forum, the hard core rule is to always run a primary reel for your team, or have a prearranged agreement with another team. PERIOD.

Having said that . . it's kind of like the Judgement Day scenario. Every person will have to give an account for his actions in life. If you have to give an account (as opposed to being strictly judged by a hard and fast rule without given a chance to reply), then perhaps there are extenuating circumstances that may warrant the judge being understanding in a particular circumstance.

Now, if YOU feel it's a long ways to the permanent line in Little River, then you've no extenuating circumstances/justification not to run a reel. Another diver, on the other hand, may have a justification.

You're responsible for yourself and your team. Complacency can get you killed. This is a risk-assessment sport. Your level of acceptable risk may not be someone else's. We all have to answer to the Grim Reaper. Hopefully, you and they will have a justification for doing what you do.

In all honesty . . don't do what everyone else does. If you ask the question about a reel, you need to run a reel. If you feel you have justification later on as your experience increases, then hopefully your justification will pass the grim reaper's test.

I know I did not answer your question. And I intentionally did not.

Great answer ! Plus it's funny !

[Gary]

I imagine most qualified cave/cavern divers run a line there (or share one or whatever).

OW divers venturing in there never do that I've seen. I'm not sure about other scooterers but when I scooter there I don't run a line.

[crawford]

Just curious how common it is, without too much concern over how right you feel it is or not. Not even looking for a personal accounting, but just "what's the norm". I'll mention the reason this came up in a bit.

[aainslie]

I don't run a line there. Or Ginnie. Or Peacock.

I do however run a line when I wander into the Catfish hotel passage while on deco.

I do in Cow. And Ruth.

And someone would be a bigger dumbass than me to use this info in any way!

I think people should look at the cave. Work out what they're going to do in a silt-out. Work out what a "silt-out" even means in that cave. And based on that make up their own mind.

I know you just want to know who does and who doesn't - but that's not a particularly useful dataset. More interesting is WHY don't they? Are they just a dumbass? Have they thought through it?

Here's a fun exercise (which I've never tried). When you've completed your deco, and with someone watching you, why don't you go down to the gold line at Little River, shut your eyes, and see how long it takes you to get out? That might be more informative than a poll.

...But I suspect that if you make yourself neutrally buoyant, it'll take you about a minute to get spat out. Just keep your head covered

[Daedalus]

23.7%

[crawford]

...But I suspect that if you make yourself neutrally buoyant, it'll take you about a minute to get spat out. Just keep your head covered

Flow is pretty low in there right now, you can pretty much hover during deco. I'm more used to "holding on for dear life" at 10 feet like you say.

Again, I'm not asking this to make a personal decision, just curious how common it is for folks to not run lines in there.......

[aw]

...But I suspect that if you make yourself neutrally buoyant, it'll take you about a minute to get spat out. Just keep your head covered

AAHHHHH!!!! I smell a new full-cave skill assessment requirement - The lost exit drill.

[chimie007]

One more thing to consider. While the golden rule says "continuous line to OW", it is worth noting that there is a huge difference between a blind jump and not putting a primary reel. I'm sure that accident analysis would show that for deaths (trained cave divers) where the cause was ruled as "no continuous line to exit", it wasn't from the lack of a primary but a blind jump missed on the return.

At a jump, there is no light from the surface, it is usually far from an exit and it could be hard to locate on return even in normal dive condition.

At the beginning of the line, there is often light from surface, usually within 100' from the exit and it will be obvious that this is EOL on return. Depending on the cave, the exit can be easily located blind.