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  1. #41

    Default Re: impact

    Quote Originally Posted by skip
    >snip Say it is and that the current water level is 15 feet on average. You would see a 0.39 foot drop in the water level. You probably wouldn't see it actually. >snip
    -skip
    Just food for thought.

    0.39 feet is ~4.75 inches. With a bank slope of 10 degrees, the waterline would recede ~2 feet 3 inches. You would definitely see it. Try plugging in some numbers for shallower slopes and it gets worse.


  2. #42
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    Default flow mechanics

    the formulae for flow and levels is a bit more complex than we've made it out to be. I don't know the math but you need to know things like total volume (depth, bank to bank distance). 4.75 inches is the water drop if and only if July spring is the only feeder, which it isn't. Ginnie, the eye and ear all pump out more than July and even those three are but a tiny portion of the total. you may see a 4-inch drop, but you won't get a four inch drop due to 600,000 gallons removed from July Spring. Given all the feeders my guess is more like less than an inch drop.

    Joel makes the point about more and more and when to put a stop to it, but that really is a different issue, one that some oversight agency should be addressing on just how much water, what percent maybe, will be allowed to go to bottling.... this should not be an issue with July Spring, but at some point certainly does become an issue that needs to be addressed by the proper agencies (and private citizens who want to).

    -skip

    "Learning the techniques of others does not interfere with the discovery of techniques of one's own." B.F. Skinner, 1970.

  3. #43
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    Default

    most of the permits i have seen applied for allow for at least 1 million gallons a day. and these are self-regulated numbers. i don't know how many billion gallons a year that turns into, but its a lot of water coming directly from my well at my house. it starts getting real personal at that point.

    joel


  4. #44

    Default Article in Question

    Since so much discussion has surrounded my article, I would like to publish it here in its original form (as submitted to the NACD) and let you read it for yourselves. My original intent was only to inform the NACD membership through an article in the NACD Journal of a very real and immediate issue. I can only hope everyone is willing to do the research for themselves. If this is something you are interested in (and you're an NACD member), please attend the NACD Board meeting tomorrow at Lloyd Bailey's shop at 3 PM.

    Respectfully,

    Jacki Clark

    Cave Diver Environmental Alert

    “The primary purpose of the NACD is TO CONSERVE and TO PROTECT the cave habitat and its varied flora and fauna through education… It is the duty of each diver to take personal responsibility for eliminating damage to the cave systems and educating others of the need for conservation and protection of these systems.” If you were certified through the NACD, you will recognize these words as excerpts from the NACD Cave Conservation Policy, which you were probably asked to read and sign.

    As cave divers, we have the unique opportunity to dive into the aquifer and, consequently, observe the very circulatory system of our planet. Nearly everyone knows that the springs of North Central Florida are considered some of the most beautiful, pristine examples of these karst windows. However, they are now threatened by commercial opportunists who wish to pump the very lifeblood of the region into bottles and trucks for profit.

    At this time, there is one water bottling plant operating on the Santa Fe River. It is located near Ginnie Springs, and it has a permit to withdraw 1,000,000 (one million) gallons of water every day from the aquifer. Since the plant opened, observant divers have noticed that the overall spring run levels have dropped. Now, two more applications have been filed for withdrawal permits within three miles of the already-existing plant. Another new permit has already been issued for the new owners of Lilly Springs to the tune of 1,000,000 (one million) gallons per day. If all of these permits are approved by the Suwannee River Water Management District and the owners begin extraction, the local aquifer will lose about 1,350,000,000 gallons each year. To those who need it spelled out, that is one billion, three hundred fifty million gallons of water yearly that will be lost to the aquifer forever.

    Chester Sheffield, a local well driller and member of the North Florida Well Drillers Association, spoke at a meeting of concerned citizens in May. He said that the association is already seeing a need for re-drilled and/or deeper private wells. Sheffield also stated that salt water intrusion is beginning to be a problem in the area as well.

    One problem of the bottling plants is that they are self-regulated. Their permit may say one million gallons per day, but no one is watching to make sure they stick to their limits. History has proven that profit margins help to blur the line between right and wrong, and this is a real fear for our caves. When permit violators are caught, they are cited; but it is very difficult to catch the companies pushing the limits.

    The most personally disturbing aspect of this issue lies in the fact that some cave divers are profiting from these bottling companies. A cave diver who works as a water quality consultant for the Ginnie Springs plant (owned by a subsidiary of North America Coca-Cola) has been quoted as saying that water bottling plants are one of the “highest and best uses for that water” (See Our Town Magazine, High Springs and Alachua, Summer 2007). I have a difficult time seeing the logic behind such a belief. More importantly, I find this attitude to be a blatant violation of the cave diving motto: “Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but bubbles, kill nothing but time.” Extracting water from the aquifer for bottling is most certainly “taking” something from the cave.

    The aquifer is not limitless, common sense tells us this. Unfortunately, common sense rarely wins over corporate profit. What you need to understand is that groundwater is not legally considered a shared resource in Florida. At this time, if you own property and obtain the correct permits (which are sometimes issued by less-than-wise officials), you have the right to drain every drop of water under the ground you own. Since caves often cross property lines, a single bottling plant can impact an area far beyond its own legal deed. Until the legislation is changed, individuals have the burden of standing in the gap for common sense.

    If we, the cave diving community, stand by and do nothing, the water bottling companies will have their way and we will be guilty of neglecting the very caves that give us so much pleasure. Those cave divers who profit from these bottling companies should feel our censure, and should take a hard look at their actions and motives. Those of us who take the conservation policy seriously need to get informed and involved.

    If you are interested in helping, I urge you to contact the following people:

    Suwannee River Water Management District
    John Kruse
    9225 County Road 4
    Live Oak, Florida 32060
    k@srwmd.org

    Debbie Boyd, State Representative
    95 NW 1st Avenue
    High Springs, Florida 32643
    Debbie.boyd@myfloridahouse.gov

    Charlie Crist, Governor
    Charlie.Crist@eog.myflorida.com

    Also, if you go online to www.oursantaferiver.org, you will find more information and a petition asking for a moratorium on all bottling permits until minimum flows and levels testing is completed and reported (due to begin in 2008). Please remember that you must be a registered Florida voter to sign the petition, but feel free to print it, gather signatures, and mail it to John Kruse at SRWMD.

    Thank you for hearing me, and for taking seriously the directive TO CONSERVE and TO PROTECT the caves of North Florida.

    Jacki Clark
    jsctchr13@aol.com


  5. #45
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    Default

    well that certainly sounds slanderous and unfounded. how dare we try to protect our caves on such a baseless issue.

    (i am being sarcastic)

    joel


  6. #46

    Default Additional comments

    Since writing that article, I have learned even more about the issue. I would like to add a couple of pieces of information for your digestion.

    First, please consider that water permits are 20-year permits. If all of the desired permits within that three mile stretch of the Santa Fe are granted, this will total 27,000,000,000 (twenty-seven billion) gallons that will be extracted from the area around Ginnie for the life of those permits. How many inches of rain would the area have to receive in order to recharge the aquifer that much? No one has been able to definitively answer that question, so how much sense does it make to extract that much water without such crucial knowledge?

    Second, there is a legal issue coming to the forefront. Since groundwater is owned by the state, don't you, as a taxpayer, find it a little disturbing that private companies are able to bottle it and make astronomical profit from it? Isn't is YOUR taxes that help support the protection and regulation of the water? Why are a few people able to profit from something that belongs to all of us?

    Lastly, it has been widely publicized in area newspapers (and on national network news) that Central and South Florida project to run out of water by 2013. They are looking to take the "extra" water from this area to fill their needs. Since most money in the state is from Central and South Florida, who do you think would win that fight in legislation? Keep that in mind and think about this: When a large company (that is making a large profit) is asked to decrease production or face fines (which might happen to water bottling plants in the face of severe shortage), what decision do you think their board of directors will make? It's easier to pay a fine and keep on pumping than to stop production. Since the fine is often microscopic compared to the profit, the decision is a no-brainer. (SFWMD just fined some golf courses only $500 for failure to report consumption... will $500 stop anyone?) Now, doesn't it make more sense to stop the bottling before it starts and preserve the water we have so that when other regions of the state start looking here, we'll have enough to spare?

    Jacki


  7. #47
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    Default

    Doesn't sound as bad as I had heard. I still don't see why you would want to claim "some cave diver" is profiting from and destroying the caves. Taking a stab like that at an individual and you really don't have anything to back it up. If you are writing about the water it serves no purpose in your article to bad mouth the guy.

    IMO: Imagine the same article minus the pointed slurs and "To those who need it spelled out" comments. Remove pointing out to the NACD it's own purpose. What's left isn't very long but might be worthy of printing for it's environmental concerns.

    I know there is a website out there devoted to this so I'm surprised that the letter would be so light on pertinent facts and so heavy on slurs and innuendo.

    I'm not in charge of accepting articles for anything but I wouldn't have printed what you have here. Maybe with more facts and less slurs the NACD might have been interested - maybe not.


    As I said it doesn't sound as bad as I expected but I'm still not surprised it didn't get printed.


    I would guess though that since the slurs were then carried on-line to this thread which has nothing to do with bottling permits that the issue is personal with someone. If you've got a problem with the bottling companies you should take it up with them or start a new thread instead of attacking a thrid party that happens to be a cave diver "whoever" seems to have a personal problem with.


    On the positive side I heard the other day that some bottling permit applications got denied.


  8. #48

    Default Another thought

    By the way, I'm curious. Did anyone who read my article find it nasty, baseless or libelous? If you did, I'd be interested to hear your side of it. As for alarmist and accusatory, you're probably right. I'm alarmed that a resource that means so much to me is being exploited and harmed, and people aren't willing to even look at the issue. I'm alarmed because I've seen similiar things happen to other areas in the country we're running out of pristine resources. I'm accusatory because I believe in the conservation statement I signed and am disgusted that other cave divers don't.

    Jacki


  9. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary
    I still don't see why you would want to claim "some cave diver" is profiting from and destroying the caves. Taking a stab like that at an individual and you really don't have anything to back it up.

    Maybe with more facts and less slurs the NACD might have been interested - maybe not.
    Hey, Gary, did you miss the fact that I cite the article where I found the first of my information? Did you miss the documents that Walter posted for your "proof?" I was trying in my article to inform the membership, remind them of the statement they had signed, and inspire them to live up to the cave divers' motto. I tried to do that without blatantly naming anyone. I'm not trying to destroy anyone. I just want people to see all sides of the issue, do some research themselves, and decide whether or not the water is worth fighting for.

    I for one am going to be at the meeting tomorrow. I look forward to meeting you there.

    Jacki


  10. #50
    Guest

    Default Re: Another thought

    Quote Originally Posted by jsctchr13
    Did anyone who read my article find it nasty, baseless or libelous?
    No, but from a scientific point of view, there are a lot of holes in your logic. "Since the plant opened, observant divers have noticed that the overall spring run levels have dropped." Yes, and we're in the middle of a hundred year drought. Because of the tremendous lack of rain in south Georgia, the Suwanee River is several feet below "normal" levels. Although the Santa Fe is spring-fed, it dumps directly into the Suwanee, and logic would imply that a lowered Suwanee will mean a lowered Santa Fe, hence lower spring runs.

    Second, the water removed from the aquifer was soon to leave the aquifer anyway. Think about it: remove the bottling plant, and the water would exit the aquifer into the Santa Fe, to the Suwanee, and into the Gulf of Mexico. So instead of thinking of the plants as taking water out of the aquifer, it's taking water that's destined for the Gulf the day after tomorrow.

    My argument is severely lacking in scientific basis, as is yours. It should not be implied that I'm in favor of the bottling plants. I'm just pointing out why, if I were the editor of the NACD Journal, I wouldn't have printed your article, either.



 

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