Telford is Closed! ???

[Line Squirrel]

Is there a sign or something telling people it is closed? How effective has it been? Are there still locals going down there anyway?

Only been a couple days since the Sheriff has been enforcing the "No Tresspassing" signs that went up about a year ago.

It's going to be a long summer for the Suwannee Co. Sheriff Dept.

I'll take a ride down there later this morning and let you know if there is any new sinage...who's gonna post my bail Just kidding, I'll go to the boat ramp but no traspassing!

[Ken Hill]

Owning it would be a bad thing for the cave agencies. It would need constant attention and patrols to keep the locals (who consider it "theirs") from entering it anytime they please and trashing it. It would be a major liability hazard and a big expense to maintain.

Cave organizations should make every effort to buy land with Springs.
I disagree and make my point with the area surrounding School Sink which had local families living on the property, in tents, raising children which resulted in great piles of trash all over. Heck, there even was a shallow grave from a homicide that had taken place there. Likewise there was an encampment at Cow before it was fenced, posted and gated. In neither case has there been any great operational expenses. To the contrary membership numbers increased to record levels after the purchases.

Ownership allows you to gate and properly post the property, allowing the Sheriff to be given the authority to arrest those that are causing problems. Divers can be assured they have a site that cannot be closed by the owner or other interested parties.

This appears to be precedent for these acquisitions and SRWMD had $20,000,000 in its operational budget for 2007. Hopefully TELFORD will be a replay of what happened at Madison and Eagles Nest after those sites were purchased by the WMD's. They will decide on the best management practices for the land and eventually it will reopen either managed by a state agency, county agency or an individual contractor. My doom and gloom guess is it will not be any time soon. /Ken

[Cave Ranger]

Would appreciate it if someone from the NACD or NSS investigated to determine the root cause of this change, and if possible initiate discussions to secure access in partnership w/ the land owners.

-Tim Owens

And if we could gain access, then this temporary dilemma could be a real benefit in the long run as it would make Telford divable even in the Summer without having to have an armed militia topside.

Y'all are right. Short term this is frustrating but given the current atmosphere involving this site this may turn out to be a blessing in disguise over the long run.
After we know for sure what is going on, please let us know if there is anything we out of towners (aka tourist yayhoos) can do to assist? Letters, petitions, etc? I'm already a NSS-CDS member and I would like to help if I can.

Okay. I did get some PM's from a few of you who fancy yourselves as comics.
While I appreciate the quick response, the suggestion that that I paint the word "Telford" across my chest and set myself on fire on the steps of the Suwannee County Sheriff's office in protest is just not what I had in mind when I used the word "anything" to describe the level of assistance I was willing to put towards this worthy cause.
While I may be a self-centered nihilist who appreciates destruction and senseless burning as much as any leftist W.T.O. protestor, I feel that self immolation would be counter productive at this time.
It was a nice try though.

P.S. A few of you also suggested that I should just go "fornicate with myself". I'll have to get back with you on this as I am currently conducting a feasibility study and a cost benefit analysis for this particular project.

[Shadowjack]

Just an idea, if the cave diving community could find out who closed it, why they closed it. Maybe we could make a offer of putting up a BIG gate blocking all traffic back there for them. Have the 2 dive shops up there have keys and waivers so if someone wanted to dive it they have to check in. I don’t think any of the cave diving agencies are going to get the chance to buy the land there right now but offering to help the owners control access can’t hurt.

Eric

[OFG-1]

P.S. A few of you also suggested that I should just go "fornicate with myself". I'll have to get back with you on this as I am currently conducting a feasibility study and a cost benefit analysis for this particular project.

Please let me know how this works out. It may be cheaper in the long run than keeping my wife.

[Cave Ranger]

P.S. A few of you also suggested that I should just go "fornicate with myself". I'll have to get back with you on this as I am currently conducting a feasibility study and a cost benefit analysis for this particular project.

Please let me know how this works out. It may be cheaper in the long run than keeping my wife.

No problem Ollie.
A while back it dawned on me that I have already been conducting research in this field since the time I was around 12 or 13.
I recently applied for and was awarded a State grant to continue with this important research.
Per the grant agreement I am required to submit a final report (Pie Charts, Photos, Video, etc) to the State agency by October 31, 2007. Since it is public record I will email you a copy.

[Walter Pickel]

Three things would probably help here:

a) Conservation and care on the property;
b) Compensation
c) Reduced traffic.

On care, I think we have a good track record. Taking the owner to see Cow night be a good idea - it's really near by. Try to do it when a group is "accidentally" diving so they can see the relative calm of a group of divers.

I know a lot of people are leery of paying to use a cave, but wouldn't it make sense to offer something? It could be as simple as a "voluntary" collection of $10/diver, collected at the gate, and used to pay for the dumpster, perhap a portaloo and improvements.

Access could be controlled like Cow- Cathy and/or Bill could keep keys.

A "minimum level of dives" rule could be enforced. Perhaps not as draconian as Abe Davis, but say 25- 50 logged dives?

Just some suggestions...

If the owners started charging a fee to access the property they would no longer be protect be the Florida Sportman's Act.

[Walter Pickel]

The Sherriff's office can't restrict access to private property. They are more than likely enforcing the wishes of the owners that access to the site be shut off.

[RN]

Three things would probably help here:

a) Conservation and care on the property;
b) Compensation
c) Reduced traffic.

On care, I think we have a good track record. Taking the owner to see Cow night be a good idea - it's really near by. Try to do it when a group is "accidentally" diving so they can see the relative calm of a group of divers.

I know a lot of people are leery of paying to use a cave, but wouldn't it make sense to offer something? It could be as simple as a "voluntary" collection of $10/diver, collected at the gate, and used to pay for the dumpster, perhap a portaloo and improvements.

Access could be controlled like Cow- Cathy and/or Bill could keep keys.

A "minimum level of dives" rule could be enforced. Perhaps not as draconian as Abe Davis, but say 25- 50 logged dives?

Just some suggestions...

If the owners started charging a fee to access the property they would no longer be protect be the Florida Sportman's Act.

What if they don't charge, but we just donate money to fence/gate the property and maintain it? No requirement to donate, but donations could be accepted through the local shops (if they agree to take this on). The keys wouldn't be withheld from those who don't donate, but I'm sure word would get out...

[curtschu]

As cave divers we have always tried, as a group, to be good stewards of Telford Springs. I hope the owners will see this evidenced by the NACD paying for the dumpster, Cavers doing several clean-up over the years. One thing I wonder was the owner consulted about this? This may just be an effort to reign things in a little and show the locals that this is really not a free for all and they need to be better trespassers too. I really hope that we can be patient and let the NACD and NSS-CDS be the one point of contact with the land trust that owns Telfors and let them make the case for access. The only problem I see is that once they acknowledge access then they have slightly more liability, (see sportsman law). As technically trespassers we have very little rights.

Lets just all let the people we placed in charge of the Organization do the job we asked them.

Curt