Inflammatory posts

[Ken Hill]

Angie,
You make a valid point about the dive sites being different. However that's not all there is to it. In DEP studies the state took four parks and did comparisons of the economic impact they had on the local area. I believe they were Blue Springs Orange City, Ichetucknee Springs State Park , Wakulla and Homosassa. SCUBA was a prominent attraction of BSOC and ISSP. Why not Wakulla? Literally millions of dollars go in to the local economy in the form of lodging, restaurants, services and other business.

It is good for a park to draw visitors and they can do that by offering MORE to the public. The CSO programs are intended to do exactly that. I belong to the Wakulla and Peacock CSO and have my park pass thru Manatee. Again, participation gives you a voice where it counts. /K

[Angie Reim]

See whinning works.

Sometimes I suppose......

Occasionally I'll buy something for the kids if they'll just SHUTUP!!
Of course they never get anything really important that way.

Angie

[OneBrightGator]

Why would you work hard to get access if you can simply whine your way around restrictions. Why work with the park if you think you can change the rules that govern them...

There were even complaints about Ginnie when they started requiring DPV trainning. And again when Intro cave divers weren't being allowed in on doubles.

What is so noble about constantly beating your head against the wall? All the hard work that was put into opening Wakulla didn't get anywhere until one person "took the easy way" and submitted an FOIA request and followed it up.

Why waste time and money on a class that teaches you something you can learn from one dive with a mentor, esp. when your hand is forced to take it? Why do cert. agencies and sites have to babysit cave divers? If intro is not providing the level of training people desire, then expand your training, ala NAUI Cave 1.

The "easy way" is not "inventive" if you're simply satisfied with the status quo and don't want to see any progress.

[Jerry]

Why waste time and money on a class that teaches you something you can learn from one dive with a mentor, esp. when your hand is forced to take it? Why do cert. agencies and sites have to babysit cave divers? If intro is not providing the level of training people desire, then expand your training, ala NAUI Cave 1.

Reading this I would say 1) You have no idea about Trimix if you think you can really learn it in one dive. 2) You need to learn to read; if the park wants it that way that is the way it will be. Emerald is not Peacock, a diver can very quickly get to 180' and there are too many idiots out there that insist on screwing it up for the majority by "Diving beyond their level of Training"

Jerry

[Ken Hill]

What is so noble about constantly beating your head against the wall? All the hard work that was put into opening Wakulla didn't get anywhere until one person "took the easy way" and submitted an FOIA request and followed it up.

Yeah, right send the FOIA request thing to Mythbusters. Enuf said by me. Jerry said it perfectly. /K

[Kelly Jessop]

What is so noble about constantly beating your head against the wall? All the hard work that was put into opening Wakulla didn't get anywhere until one person "took the easy way" and submitted an FOIA request and followed it up.

Ben
No disrespect,but this isn't how it happened. I probably wouldn't reply to this but there was quite a few people who worked very hard in the back ground,that out of respect for their hard work,made this happen. If this strategy worked by itself then I'd say lets use it all the time,but it was one skirmish for the whole war.

[OneBrightGator]

Yo, guys, read the quoted post in mine, the part where it talks about DPV training... not trimix.

Lots of people did work very hard, but when someone new with a new approach entered the foray, things happened very quickly. New people and new ideas may not be a direct effect, but it at least serves to shift things.

[Kelly Jessop]

but when someone new with a new approach entered the foray, things happened very quickly.

While he pulled there were some other people pushing very hard at the same time. Unfortunately sometimes when you pulling you are turned facing forward and don't realize that people are pushing,and that may be the primary reason why the object moved. So did VP Gore really invent the internet.

[curtschu]

Reading this I would say 1) You have no idea about Trimix if you think you can really learn it in one dive. 2) You need to learn to read; if the park wants it that way that is the way it will be. Emerald is not Peacock, a diver can very quickly get to 180' and there are too many idiots out there that insist on screwing it up for the majority by "Diving beyond their level of Training"

Jerry

Did you not see this?

Cave diving advocates have expressed a desire to expand the number of areas where cave diving is allowed and have suggested that guided tours and restricting use to those who meet certain proficiency standards may be a way to meet this need. Recreation providers should work with cave diving groups to see if there are ways to safely increase opportunities for this activity in ways that do not degrade the resource.

We are the ones that thought up the idea of restricted access. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. This is what I call the "Hat in Hand" method of access. We agree to anything, without giving thought to how it effects the major part of the membership. I have to agree with Gator that it cheapens the Full Cave certification. BTW the only problem I have with E and I is the GUIDE requirement. I do think there should be a "first go with a guide" requirement. Special requirements that pertain directly to the cave environment and Experience level of the Full Cave Diver do make sense because this shows a commitment to the activity and should show an ability to participate safely. After 100 safe cave dives a one week wonder and the guy who took a year for Full Cave should be indistinguishable. But with the guide requirement, lets just take the extreme example. If Woody Jasper decides to start cave diving again and in a couple of months wants to dive Emerald, Do we really think that he would need a guide to hold his hand after a first orientation dive? Since I was not there when negotiations where started I can’t say whether this was a progressive action, but it appears from the state’s own year 2000 document not to be the case.

[OFG-1]

Reading this I would say 1) You have no idea about Trimix if you think you can really learn it in one dive. 2) You need to learn to read; if the park wants it that way that is the way it will be. Emerald is not Peacock, a diver can very quickly get to 180' and there are too many idiots out there that insist on screwing it up for the majority by "Diving beyond their level of Training"

Jerry

Did you not see this?

Cave diving advocates have expressed a desire to expand the number of areas where cave diving is allowed and have suggested that guided tours and restricting use to those who meet certain proficiency standards may be a way to meet this need. Recreation providers should work with cave diving groups to see if there are ways to safely increase opportunities for this activity in ways that do not degrade the resource.

We are the ones that thought up the idea of restricted access. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. This is what I call the "Hat in Hand" method of access. We agree to anything, without giving thought to how it effects the major part of the membership. I have to agree with Gator that it cheapens the Full Cave certification. BTW the only problem I have with E and I is the GUIDE requirement. I do think there should be a "first go with a guide" requirement. Special requirements that pertain directly to the cave environment and Experience level of the Full Cave Diver do make sense because this shows a commitment to the activity and should show an ability to participate safely. After 100 safe cave dives a one week wonder and the guy who took a year for Full Cave should be indistinguishable. But with the guide requirement, lets just take the extreme example. If Woody Jasper decides to start cave diving again and in a couple of months wants to dive Emerald, Do we really think that he would need a guide to hold his hand after a first orientation dive? Since I was not there when negotiations where started I can’t say whether this was a progressive action, but it appears from the state’s own year 2000 document not to be the case.

Well, I see you do not read the requirements very well. Emerald does not have any guide system. Woody can dive there when he wants to.

Indian is privatly held, not state land. The owner was approached "hat in hand" because he has a resource that is not publicly held and there is no obligation to open it under any conditions. Just like Dipolder, Alachua, and Hart.

Can't you guys get it? This horse is dead. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. In fact, PLEASE go somewhere else.

ps - Lamar English and Mark Meadows were "guided" in Indian a few months back. Wayne Kinard was "guided" last week. Vince Ferris has been "guided" 4 or 5 times. If you guys are ever at the level of these people, who do not complain about the guide system, then maybe I will listen. Until then, this is really sad.