strategies for opening dive sites
I hear a lot about people working toward getting open access to dive sites, but I haven't heard much about how they gain access to these sites. I'm not talking about special permit dives, but rather RECREATIONAL diving access. I am also more interested in strategies for opening sites that are on "public" property, and less interested in access through private land-owner relations. Please discuss...
Re: strategies for opening dive sites
Lanes,Originally Posted by Lanes
You seem pretty adamant about a certain site.
What about a little more information about what type of site this is.
It looks to be, from your information so far that it's owned by some government agency & you have other sites in mind to do the same with.
You have been given information on several different options (get NSS-CDS or NACD involved to name a couple), maybe I missed something in your posts on your last thread.
Mike M
There is no one way to do it, because it is specific to the property. If the property is government held then there are layers of bureaucracy to go through; if the property is privately held then there are different things you may have to do. If you already have a relationship with the landowner, that will help, but a cold call is the hardest, especially if you don't have any credibility established. Something I've seen be real successful if unsure where to turn is to contact people with experience in this area and become actively involved to learn what is the best approach/method. The one big lesson I've learn is don't announce to the general cave diving community that you are trying to open site "x". Cave divers are very impatient, and this process can go very slowly. I have seen 2 cave sites almost get derailed because impatient people contacted the landowner and told them to hurry up because they wanted to go diving. Hence, don't announce it until it is done.
Reminds me of the time I wanted access to a sink that was near O'leno. I spent 10 minutes at the gate waving maps and waivers trying to get the landowners to first open the gate and then listen to me. It would have been less funny but they raised dachshunds and fifteen of them were yapping at me the entire time!
I have never had a individual say no to me on access. It doesn't hurt I dress the part and look only slightly like a nut.
Government agencies are very different. If you really want help then email Kelly, me, or someone like Mike Poucher. There are right and wrong ways to handle getting and keeping access open at public sites. Cindy Butler
"Philosophy is a purely personal matter. A genuine philosopher's credo is the outcome of a single complex personality; it cannot be transferred. No two persons, if sincere, can have the same philosophy."
--Havelock Ellis
The best way to get access is to buy the property. Vote with your wallet.
"Have you ever noticed
When you're feeling really good
There's always a pigeon
That'll come shiat on your hood?" John Prine 4-7-2020
"Into the blue again; in the silent water
Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads
What drives me crazy
What you just said Kelly is what drives me crazy when it comes to florida State Park land. The inconsistancy of rules, it is one park system and the rules should be the same. The problem I know most people have is the state just saying no to all diving.
Re: What drives me crazy
I think they do well with across the board rules-we allow cave diving. But,each park is unique and will have rules specific to that park ie they allow fishing at many parks,so should the anglers be upset that they are not allowed to fish at P1. It is impossible to have a consistent set of rules to apply to all state parks,but the good news is there is an effort underway for some standardization.
Right there with ya! There are some good things about 'being of a certain age'. Surely 'we' must be harmless. I personally am enjoying being middle-aged immensely.
Please contact those folks Cindy mentioned above rather than running off and trying to learn the ropes on your own. Those guys have had LOTs of success with regards to re-opening sites, etc. I know John Jones has as well. Remember that you can never make a second good first impression when dealing with landowners. 8)
The first step to opening any site is find out who controls it and then ask what it takes to open it to dive. It often helps if you have contacts within the regulatory system, that are not directly in the decision-making process. They can point you to the best person to contact or recommend approaches that may get better results. Case in point, at Eagle's Nest I had contacts in the State Lands department that recommended a specific contact in the Fish and Wildlife department to start negotiating access to the site. Once we got the process started Ken Hill, Larry Green and John Jones had additional contacts that helped work out the details.
Once you have a contact, it's a lot of meetings and discussions to iron out the details. Patience is highly recommended. It took a year and a half to work out Eagle's Nest.
How do you get these contacts? I did it as a volunteer mapping a cave on a park. The rangers knew us (Tony and me) and we were fortunate enough to meet the park manager and several people in the state office in the course of the project. From there I was able to use those contacts, and the trust we had built up over the years to leverage access at other sites.
Mike Poucher
I just bought 5 high and dry acres less than 1/4 mi from CEE. You got's a 'really big' backhoe?
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