An observation - re: Grim Reaper Sign

[skip]

I enjoyed reading your post, because I have been thinking about the same thing - what is it that is causing OW divers to go kill themselves in caves and wrecks? I've concluded that there is no one common thread, but a few; eg, the "macho thing" like the guy you describe; the "I'm immortal" factor; and the "I'm really not very bright factor".

I used to teach OW and observed all 3 of these traits far too often, which was actually one reason I decided to quit teaching. I also believe that the hazards of diving are "soft-peddled" to an extreme extent by the primary certifying agencies to the extent that instructors are pretty much told to make diving sound a lot safer than it is. I think that OW instructors should emphasis the hazards of going into environments beyond their training and if the students decide to not "put another dollar in", so be it.

I was an ow diver going cave diving without training. I don't need no stinkin' training cause I can read. I read all the manuals, lurked the forums, followed internet pics and diagrams, and viola' went cave diving.

Before that, I found that anytime I encountered a dark hole, I looked in and went in as far as I felt comfortable (not far, but past the sign, if there was one). I silted out a room in a wreck (although divemaster had warned everyone not to go into the wreck) on my nitrox check out dives and thought I was going to die.

Later, once I got my al80's doubled up, I got lost in a cave and thought I was going to die. Still didn't see the need for any training, but my scuba instructor had recently gotten his ymca cavern instructor so several of his dm's took his class, so i did too.

Did a few more years of cave diving and then overhead some divers at a local dive shop talking about needing one more guy for a cavern/intro to cave class in florida. i was already cavern, but what the heck, it sounded like fun, i had the time, and the money, and the guys seemed fun to hang out with. Still didn't see the need for training.

Saw no reason to go full cave, I could do all I wanted in caves without it. Then one day in a quarry I dropped into a large crack in the bottom, hiding from my buddies - going to pop out and scare them as they passed overhead. But a fish was in there staring at me, so I put my face right up in his and there it occurred to me that it was obvious I was going to go into every dark hole underwater I could find and that I best get all the training I could. It was like an epiphany - I saw who I was and what I needed to do to be that person.

I don't think of myself as stupid, or a redneck macho man, or with feelings of immortality or a death-wish. Some of us have a high need for stimulation, risky experiences, thrills and chills, but not in a loose cannon way. well-planned, well-researched, visualized a million times, and a ream of paper consumed drawing, outlining, listing, tabling, figuring....

an anal-retentive sensation-seeker?

but let's not leave out the "go where no one has gone before" factor.

-skip

[skip]

wizard, I work at middle tennessee state university in murfreesboro tn.

psych dept

started in bird vision research, teaching stats, research methods, and computer-based data analysis, and animal behavior. now doing naturalistic observations of aquatic cave animals (with special interest in perception without sight - the eyeless creatures).

-skip

[JE]

Fly a plane or drive a car without going to school & taking lessons from a competant instructor-? I don't think so-! Swim into a cave without lights, line, technicques, & skills learned from going to school-? I don't think so-!
Drop the water cooler on your co-workers head, or stuff his head underneath the spicket-? YES-! Absolutely-!
I'm on your side ME & I like your hat 8) .

Jack

[Me]

Thanks Jack!

[OutlawCaver]

When I was diving in the 150 mile radius surrounding Washington D.C. I use to hunt for flooded rock quarries for diving. Of course I knew about the commercially operated ones but I am referring to the more wild remote quarries. Many were only known to the locals in small townships of Maryland, Virginia, West Virgina and Pennsylvania. It was always a dead giveaway when driving down a road in the middle of nowwhere while hunting for these quarries to find "NO PARKING" signs along the road. That told me exactly where to go to access the quarry.

[jmaddox]

This guy sounds like a character from the movie office space. I hate people like that. sorry. Just let him know that I have an old set of gear that he can use whenever he wants. I will not mind not ever getting it back after it is confiscated as evidence. j/k

[sskasser]

So what, in this b00b's expert opinion, should the sign say?

I'd agree with several of the posts to tell him to go for it and let Darwin cull him from the herd, except the headline would still read "Another Cave Diver Dies".

[OutlawCaver]

If I commandeer my friend's helicopter and then certainly crash it into the ground the papers would NOT read: "PILOT crashes helicopter into the ground". Instead, it would read: "IDIOT tries to fly helicopter without proper training and crashes....DUH"

[skip]

Fly a plane or drive a car without going to school & taking lessons from a competant instructor-? I don't think so-! Swim into a cave without lights, line, technicques, & skills learned from going to school-? I don't think so-!
Drop the water cooler on your co-workers head, or stuff his head underneath the spicket-? YES-! Absolutely-!
I'm on your side ME & I like your hat 8) .

Jack

Hey, I didn't mean to disagree; the guy is a jerk for sure, but I must say sometimes reasonable people can also behave in ways that seems unreasonable to many and even to themselves later in life....

But come on, surely I'm not the only cave diver who's gone into a cave without proper certifications first.....?

Maybe we should have a poll?

-skip

[Wizard]

I went in Vortex, but that's not really a REAL cave.
It's a 109 ft deep tourist trap.