Air Share in Cow

[Line Squirrel]

I was reading some articles in the resources section of the CDF. Jay had a good article about SM divers having a 7ft hose on one tank & BM divers trying to air share exiting Cow.

A little slow on the board last couple days I thought this might be an interesting topic for discussion.

How many BM divers have really, I mean really thought this one through and what are your thoughts?


Just one more reason I went to SM

Mike

[Al]

How many BM divers have really, I mean really thought this one through and what are your thoughts?

I have, and my thoughts are that I would not want to have to come out of there while having a problem, especially one involving gas sharing, so I don't dive there.

I've thought about it, too, so for a while I dove sidemount, but was never completely satisfied with the chest clutter.

My personal breathing rate affords me the luxury of redundancy without carrying a lot of extra gas. When scootering, an aluminum 80 will last me as long as my scooter's battery life, so I use that and my backgas is the redundancy. When swimming, I don't stage, because 90 minutes is as long as I like to dive. So I carry a steel 51 as a buddy bottle. Pumped to 70 cubic feet, it should get me out from wherever I can swim on thirds of doubles (usually LP80s). It's also so small that I can barely tell it's there.

[Angie Reim]

It can be done. John and I've done it for confidence sake. Long hose hanging between the legs and up to the mouth from behind. Pull your way out so you don't kick the guy with the gas in the head. Big'ns might not be able to do this.

The other option (my preference) is to leave a stage just inside the final restriction just in case. FWIW negotiating an extra tank through those turns ain't easy either and bangs up the cave. I didn't like that either so I went sidemount.

Whatever you chose, I think it's just plain foolish not to do this drill before diving the cave proper. I can't tell you how many times we've just negotiated various restrictions in both directions twice just to be sure before ever checking out a cave. There is no hurry to get somewhere.

Sometimes baby steps are best.


Angie

Sometimes baby steps are best.

When it comes to cave diving, I think this is the best advice there is.

[Jay]

Good advice Angie!!! (The practice, the stage and the baby steps) I doubt many people have practiced that scenario.

[WJH]

That's part of why I haven't done Cow upstream. The other part is the image of someone being stuck in the restriction with me on the wrong side at the time!

WJH

[mwenner]

With a lot of people getting into SM, and people getting in RBR's, and then having a mixed team, caution is the word, isn't it? I know my cave training never covered diving BM, along side with either. My first dive with a side mount diver was with TJ (who was side mount), and he looked me dead in the eye before doing Telford one night, and said, " here's my long hose, and it's on this tank". Got it!

The first time I did Cow, upstream, was with a RBR diver, and knowing what I know now about rebreathers, and didn't know then, I would have asked more questions, and not gone on faith. We did carry a stage, and passed it through the restriction, so in a way, we backed it up.

I'd say it's good to do more talking once you're in the water, ready for the dive, especially with someone who's been there, and done it. It's much easier to have that conversation topside, than to do it while sharing air, no? Imagination is good, but experience is better.

[billyf]

If a BM dive team shares air, and a BM and SM share are if everyone has a 7’ hose

How is there any difference??????????????????

[Angie Reim]

If a BM dive team shares air, and a BM and SM share are if everyone has a 7’ hose

How is there any difference??????????????????

Because if you are the one OOA you WILL grab the regulator that is in the other diver's mouth. If they are lucky they will see you coming.

In BM the 'other' diver is breathing off the long hose. When the 'other' diver is in SM you don't know which hose it will be so the SM diver had best be very, very comfortable with an up close and personal experience with that OOA diver. I just don't believe the typical OOA diver will have the wherewithal to first give the OOA signal so I then donate the long hose. I just assume an OOA diver will grab the regulator from my mouth even if they 'know' which tank carries the long hose, so both regs are on breakaway clips at the upper shoulder/neck and I dive mixed configurations only with those I am pretty sure will not just 'freak out'. If I am working with someone new in BM, it's baby steps and short dives. I don't mind it because there are also lots and lots of things to see and do in caverns and close to exits. We can go further later.

Sometimes I wish I were doing BM but I am truly a better diver in SM. Fortunately my regular bud's are often BM so if there is a new guy they pair up. My attitude is get the air first and then we'll get ourselves situated. This comes after many 'surprise' OOA drills. Which reminds me that it's my turn. John owes me one which is never pleasant (though necessary). LOL. The only rule we have for a drill is that it's near the exit so no one mistakenly thinks it's for real. Reality is never planned so that's why they are often 'surprise' drills.