Survey line placement protocol

[Angie Reim]

Like this?

Yes that is exactly what mean

Oh I cain't help it......looks like a sperm with an inflated self-image.

That situatin' (mind-set) often confuses folks.

Ya'll try to remember I'm just being silly 'cause I cain't dive for only God knows how long. Back injury.

I agree with Cindy. Don't screw with it -- especially if it's not a well socialized change. How long before it's just left in the cave as a 'glory marker' or whatever? It would screw with my head if in a siltout and if'n I hadn't seen this thread.

Also I agree. All arrows need to point out.

BTW that brings up another concern. What's with multiple lines in the same area/tunnel in some of our caves? Charles for example. Someone suggested they were survey lines vs. the usual travel line.

Could someone tell me why a survey line may differ in position from the 'out going' line in the same tunnel and how it can be justified without concern for other divers that may experience a siltout? Can you not just take the survey data off the same line (might complicate it a bit with directional changes so maybe there is a way to handle it so eventually the survey line intersects the outgoing line with an arrow pointing out). I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'd really like to understand the situation given that I'm currently working a survey project. Shouldn't a survey team clean that up immediately if possible to prevent an accident. I don't want to mess with someone's line or project but some of these caves have areas with 3 or more lines that can lead to an accident. We can take it offline and do PM's if you like.

Angie

[Kelly Jessop]

BTW that brings up another concern. What's with multiple lines in the same area/tunnel in some of our caves? Charles for example. Someone suggested they were survey lines vs. the usual travel line.

Wow,do I see that a lot. It gives me concern because you want to make sure that you are staying on the same line you came in on,especially when the lines cross,or get tangled,in which case I've been known to jump past it with my reel. There is one cave system that has a double set of lines,and one of the sets hides a T. I know line being put in was for survey reasons,but when I look at some of the double lines the rationale escapes me.

[Angie Reim]

BTW that brings up another concern. What's with multiple lines in the same area/tunnel in some of our caves? Charles for example. Someone suggested they were survey lines vs. the usual travel line.

Wow,do I see that a lot. It gives me concern because you want to make sure that you are staying on the same line you came in on,especially when the lines cross,or get tangled,in which case I've been known to jump past it with my reel. There is one cave system that has a double set of lines,and one of the sets hides a T. I know line being put in was for survey reasons,but when I look at some of the double lines the rationale escapes me.

You have a good deal of survey experience and what I hear you saying to me is that you don't see a good rational for leaving these multiple lines in place. Am I wrong?

I'll fix stuff as I go, I just want to make sure that I'm not cutting off my nose to spite my face in terms of the total survey project. Know what I mean?

I recognize that each of us is ultimately responsible for our own safety by assuring that we run our own line to the surface, but why leave in place something that may confuse a diver under duress? Would it not be more socially responsible to fuse the survey line into the exit line as soon as is practical and to mark the intersection with an arrow pointing OUT?

Just some thoughts for I will be making some changes to lines during surveys. If I hear some rational objections, I would certainly reconsider any given change or re-routing. My MO is to assure a single line to the surface - with( as necessary) survey lines separate from the out going line except- as mentioned before - there would be at some point a deliberate intersection of the two lines marked with an arrow toward OUT.

Any inputs?

angie

[FW]

You don't often see multiple lines in well traveled caves. They either have line committees, or enough traffic to remove confusing lines.

In less traveled caves, you have several issues.
1 Today's newer cave divers are used to the popluar sites with line committees, and assume someone else will fix the problem.
2 Even experienced cave divers assume the surveyor will eventually come back and clean up his mess.
3 It takes time and a good map to decide which line is the "best" line, and if you make an error, someone may get lost.
4 Sometimes old lines are left for historical reasons.

My suggestions:
If you only dive a cave only a few times, just leave your own markers, and remove them when you leave.
If you dive a cave often, ask around for reasons. If nobody can remember why there are extra lines, "adopt" the cave. Then remove the extra lines yourself.